Electrifying Fire Trucks with Pierce Manufacturing

[00:00:21] Hello everyone and welcome to Kilowatt, a podcast about electric vehicles, renewable energy, autonomous driving and much, much more. My name is Bodhi and I am your host and on this week's episode, or I guess the final episode of the week since we do two episodes a week, we are going to be talking about some brief E&B news. But the big thing is, is I have an interview from CES with Seth Newlin, who is with Pierce Manufacturing. If you don't know who Pierce Manufacturing

[00:00:50] are, they are like the Cadillac of Fire Trucks. There are more fire truck manufacturers out there than you think. That doesn't mean there's a lot, that just means there's more than you would really think about here in North America. And Pierce is one of the best. You know, there's some subpar to par manufacturers and then you have some great manufacturers and then you have a few like good manufacturers.

[00:01:20] Pierce is one of the greats. So I got an opportunity to, like I said, to sit down with Seth Newlin and discuss Pierce's new Volterra fire truck, which is an electric fire truck with a motor and transmission just in case, you know, you need it. Because what you don't want to do with emergency vehicles is you don't want to put the bare minimum in and then find out, oh, this is not going to take care of this emergency. People, people want to do that.

[00:01:50] firefighters to show up and they want to take care of this emergency without their truck running out of power. So it's a good interview. I think you're going to like it. All right, let's go ahead and move in to our EV news. I mentioned this briefly in the last episode. So we'll start with it.

[00:02:08] The Volvo XC40 EV is now the Volvo EX40 here in the United States. I believe the name changed in Europe last year to the EX40, but it is now the EX40 here in the US as well and North America, I should say.

[00:02:27] But that's not all for the 2025 EX40. It comes with a bigger 82 kilowatt hour battery, which is up from a 78 kilowatt hour battery for the twin motor version. The single motor version still is rocking that 78 kilowatt hour battery, but you're going to get more range with that single motor, even though the battery is a little bit smaller, you get 296 miles of range.

[00:02:51] The dual motor or twin motor as Volvo calls it, you get a range of about 260 miles. One additional benefit of the EX40 is you also get a slightly faster DC fast charging, and it's going to start at $52,500.

[00:03:10] And that brings us to GM. GM is recalling the Chevy Equinox EV. There's a defect with the adaptive cruise control software, which affects about 3000 of the Equinox EV all wheel drive models. If you don't have an all wheel drive model, then you don't have to worry about this. But the issue is that it causes the brakes to not engage as expected. This is fixed with a software update. So that's the good news.

[00:03:39] The bad news is you have to take it to a dealer, which is honestly sad because GM made a big deal that they built their whole infotainment system off of the Android automotive operating system, which is a full fledged operating system that runs the cars, you know, hardware and software stuff. And we should note that Android auto and Android automotive, although they sound similar, they're not the same thing.

[00:04:07] Android auto is the app that connects your smartphone to your car's infotainment system. Android automotive is a full fledged operating system, which is GM built their own custom infotainment system based on Android automotive. But anyway, the whole point is, is because they have this new fantastic operating system that they've developed on top of Android automotive, they should be able to do software updates. They shouldn't you shouldn't have to take this to a dealer.

[00:04:38] That's kind of sad. All right, let's go ahead and move on to our next story. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration has opened an investigation into Ford's Blue Cruise to investigate the system's limitations. And when it bumps up against those limitations, what are the driver's response capabilities? And we'll talk about that more in a moment.

[00:05:03] But let's shift focus a little bit to the events that led up to the investigation. There were two fatal accidents involving Ford's Blue Cruise. Both accidents involved a Ford Mustang Mach-E. In both accidents, the vehicles were traveling over 70 miles per hour on a controlled access highway at night. So I'm guessing a freeway or a one-way highway, that kind of thing.

[00:05:32] Blue Cruise was engaged. And according to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration's data analysis, it revealed that the drivers were unable to take control of the vehicles prior to the impact. Now, I have not read the investigations or the reports for both of these accidents. I'm only basing this off of the article that I've read.

[00:05:55] But the report shows, according to the article, that the vehicles pre-collision assist did not attempt to slow down prior to impact. A few factors that the report said that may have contributed to these accidents are the system limitations when detecting stationary vehicles at night while traveling at highway speeds. Now, if you remember right, Tesla had some issues with this as well.

[00:06:24] In Tesla's case, and I don't know if this is Ford's case, but in Tesla's case, one of the things that was happening is if somebody was using autopilot or full self-driving, and they had set their car to be, let's say, four links behind the car in front of it. And then let's say the highway speed is 65 miles an hour, but for whatever reason, the car in front of the Tesla was going 55 miles per hour.

[00:06:53] And the driver of the Tesla had the car set to travel at the speed of 67 miles per hour, we'll say. And, you know, obviously, the vehicle's not going to, you know, the Tesla's not going to try to run down the vehicle in front of it. You set it to be three or four links behind or whatever that number I said was. It's going to stay that length behind and travel at the speed that the car in front of it's traveling at.

[00:07:21] Well, then let's say that the car in front of the Tesla moves to the left lane and that opens up the lane that the Tesla's traveling in. That means the Tesla's like, oh, I'm going to drive faster because now instead of driving 55 miles an hour, I can drive 67 miles an hour because it's completely open. And it starts to increase speed.

[00:07:45] But what the car wasn't recognizing in some cases, not every case, but what the car wasn't recognizing was the reason why the vehicle in front of the Tesla moved into the left lane was because there was a stationary object in the right lane or in the lane that the Tesla was traveling in.

[00:08:03] So instead of the car slowing down and stopping and recognizing that because it was kind of shielded from the car in front of it, the Tesla would actually speed up and then it would hit a stationary object. Now, again, I have not investigated all of these accidents when it comes to Tesla's hitting stationary objects, you know, like I said, three or four years ago. But, you know, that was one of the explanations for why this was occurring.

[00:08:32] As of recent, I haven't heard anything else. I haven't heard any new incidents, I should say, of Tesla's hitting stationary objects. Doesn't mean it isn't happening. It just means maybe it's not being reported. But it seems like Tesla has solved that issue. All right. And I don't know if this is what Ford is experiencing. We'll have to wait for the investigation to come out and I'll keep you updated as we learn more. All right.

[00:09:02] Let's move to our Tesla news. Tesla has increased prices of their vehicles in Canada. The Model S, X and Y, all three of those vehicles saw or those vehicles saw a $4,000 increase across the trims. But the Model 3 was a little bit different. The long range rear wheel drive Model 3 saw a $4,000 increase.

[00:09:26] The long range all wheel drive Model 3 saw an $8,000 increase. And the performance Model 3 saw a $9,000 increase. So I'm not sure what's going on with the price increase there. I hope this isn't something that's going to happen in all markets or in all countries. And we see these price increases. But we'll see.

[00:09:55] Speaking of Canada, YouTube channel Frozen Tesla, which is a good channel. You should check it out. Answers the question, what happens when you leave a refreshed Model 3 outside in 32 degrees Celsius or 26 degrees Fahrenheit for five and a half hours? And then you try and charge the battery. So I think this is a good test. Is it the most scientific test out there? Absolutely not.

[00:10:25] And Mason, who runs that channel, was quick to point out that he's trying to provide information on his channel. But he's also not trying to ruin his car. So some of his tests might not be as extreme as some people would want it to be. But this is his car. And he did pay for it. So I think this is a good video. And I'll put a link to the video in the show notes. But I think this is a good video.

[00:10:54] Simply because, you know, he does provide some good information. But he's not going to be leaving his car outside for days on end and, you know, negative 45 degree temperatures or whatever. You know, he paid for his vehicle. He doesn't want to ruin it. And I completely understand that. Anyway, so like I said, the host, Mason, man, I hope I'm not getting his name wrong. I'm pretty sure it's Mason. And he kind of chronicled what he did.

[00:11:22] And like I said, he left the vehicle out in negative 32 degrees Celsius or negative 26 degrees Fahrenheit for about five and a half hours. And then he went to charge his vehicle. When he got into his vehicle, it was around 25% before starting the trip. Then he drove to the supercharger.

[00:11:45] One of the things that he did before leaving is he went to navigate and he chose the supercharger that he wanted to use. And this is really important because that preconditions the battery. And what that means by preconditioning the battery is it's warming up the battery and it's getting ready to accept a charge. One of the problems that was happening last year in like Chicago when it was really cold is some of these vehicles were not preconditioned or didn't have the ability to precondition.

[00:12:13] And basically people were plugging their cars in and it was charging extraordinarily slowly because the batteries were not ready to take that charge. And eventually they would warm up and it would take a little bit faster charge, but it still wasn't super fast. So, yeah. So he preconditioned the battery.

[00:12:37] He said he did not have regenerative braking on his way to the supercharger. It was about a 12-kilometer trip, which took about 16 minutes. And then when he arrived at the supercharger, it was minus 25 degrees Celsius. So it had warmed up a little bit. He started the day off at minus 32.

[00:13:02] By the time he charged five and a half, six hours later, it was minus 25 degrees Celsius or minus 16 degrees Celsius. And the battery had gone down from 25% during that 16-kilometer trip to 17%. So the car was working hard to precondition that battery. The charge time when he plugged in said it was going to be a total of 40 minutes.

[00:13:29] And initially, within maybe the first five minutes, he was seeing 140 to 150 kilowatts of energy flowing into the battery. That did drop down to around, you know, 87 to 97, kind of in that range. Or 80 to 97, I should say, while he was charging. He charged from 17% to 77%.

[00:13:58] And I think it took him about 40 minutes. It looks like I didn't write that down. I did watch the video. But I think the most important thing to get out of this is if you have a vehicle that will precondition the battery before you charge when it's cold outside. And it's good to do at any time. Like, if I drove to the supercharger right now and I plugged my car in, it would be like, you know what? It would have been smarter had you preconditioned the battery before driving here.

[00:14:25] And all you have to do in a Tesla is you have to navigate in the navigation software to that charging station. And it gets the battery ready to accept that charge. So you can charge super fast. So, or at least fast. All right. Our last story here is recommended by Bart Bouchotts.

[00:14:46] Bart sent me an email this morning showing that the Model Y, the new Model Y, Juniper, is set to be released in Europe in May. But I also got an email this morning from Tesla saying that the new Model Y is set to be released here in North America in March. So I just wanted to just kind of go down the launch edition of the Model Y or the new Model Y.

[00:15:15] So the launch edition, which is a very special edition of the Model Y here in the United States, will cost $59,900. It is a long-range all-wheel drive version of the vehicle. It is not a performance version. It is a long-range all-wheel drive version. So the same version that I have. And it has about nine more miles of range than the previous all-wheel drive version had.

[00:15:43] Included in the $59,000 price, you get full self-driving, which is an $8,000 value. Acceleration boost, which I think is about a $2,000 value, although it's not on Tesla's website. And I don't know what they're valuing it at for the new version of the car. So I'm going to say $2,000. That's about $10,000.

[00:16:04] That gets you 0 to 60 in about 4.1 seconds instead of the 4.8 seconds that my car has. You get the launch edition badging on the vehicle. Like there's a launch edition badge, which looks a lot like the ludicrous badging. But you get that on the lift gate on the back of the car. You get some door seal badging that says launch.

[00:16:33] You get a puddle light, you know, and just some other small things here or there. The thing is, is this costs $12,000 more than the equivalent version of the older car, right? So the equivalent of the older car is this is $12,000 more for me, just in the few things that they're giving you here. I don't think that's $12,000 in value.

[00:16:59] I, I, I don't value like I'd like to have full self-driving, but I don't think $8,000 is worth it. And then the acceleration boost, I just don't care about. So that's $2,000 that I wouldn't ever spend anyway. And then, you know, as far as the, the badging for the launch edition, that's something I absolutely don't care about. So for me, this wouldn't be a good choice because I just don't care that much about that kind of stuff.

[00:17:25] But if you, if this is something that's important to you, absolutely, this might be a good option, especially because, you know, I, I've said this for a long time. It's makes more sense for Tesla to raise the price of their vehicles. Let's say $5,000 and include full self-driving with every vehicle than it does to try to sell it on the side. I don't think there's much value of trying to, uh, upcharge somebody for full self-driving,

[00:17:54] but I do think there's value for somebody to go out and buy a Tesla and be like, Oh, it just comes with the car. Cool. I don't have to think about it. I'm just going to get full self-driving. And you're, like I said, you're, you're charging $5,000 more, but you're selling FSD on every single vehicle instead of selling it on whatever their, their take rate is, which is, I'm still guessing not high.

[00:18:21] Um, it sounds like it's increasing, but you also have the a hundred dollars a month that you can spend for the subscription and all that stuff. So I don't know how they're, you know, parsing that, that out. Anyway, if you don't like the look of the new model, why you can still currently buy an older version of the model Y at a reduced price. And I went on Tesla's website and I just clicked on a couple of the cars on the website.

[00:18:46] And from what I saw, the prices are anywhere between $400 and or $450 and $1,500 off of the price of a current model Y. So if you're looking, uh, buying another car, you know, you get $1,500 off. He is somebody's referral code. You'll get another $1,300 off or something like that. I don't remember what exactly the referral code is, but it's somewhere in that range.

[00:19:13] Um, and then as of right now, Tesla still says these vehicles qualify for the $7,500 federal tax credit. So, you know, you could be looking at close to $10,000 off the price of the vehicle if you live here in the United States, plus whatever subsidies your state is offering as well. So it wouldn't necessarily be a bad deal to go with a current version model Y and get $10,000 off. Uh, not too shabby.

[00:19:43] All right, everybody, that is it for our news this week. Um, let's go ahead and jump into our interview. So this is with Seth Newland and Seth is with Pierce Manufacturing. And I kind of, I said this at the top of the show that Pierce is the Cadillac of fire trucks. Uh, in a lot of firefighters, mine, certainly in mine, Pierce is the, the, the best, uh, the best you can buy.

[00:20:11] Now there are other companies out there that are probably just as good as Pierce, but all of the Pierce's that I've driven have been exceptional and their customer service has been exceptional and their mechanics. And my whole experience with Pierce has just been out of this world. So, uh, I was really looking forward to sit down and, and have a conversation with these folks. I asked them for, I think seven or eight minutes and we talked for 20.

[00:20:38] So yeah, uh, it was a good conversation. Hopefully you learned some things. We do reference things like ladder tenders and HDRs and HDR is a heavy duty rescue and a ladder tender here in the system that I work in. We use ladder tenders as a cheaper way of going to calls when we don't need the big ladder.

[00:21:03] So right now, if you buy a big ladder, uh, like we have a hundred foot ladder with a bucket on it or platform on it that I drive right now, if we were to buy that ladder, uh, brand new, it would cost about $2 million. They're not cheap. So in order to keep the miles off of that, we put, we, we get a regular sized fire truck and we put all of the same equipment on it. It just doesn't have the big ladder.

[00:21:31] And it's, it's basically a giant toolbox in our department and many other departments that we work with ladder tenders don't have a pump or anything like that. So if we show up to fire, uh, to a fire, we are doing things like cutting the roof or, uh, ventilating. We are, you know, doing salvage and overhaul. We can help with search and rescue. We're softening up the building.

[00:21:55] We're basically the ladder company's job is to break things in a, um, controlled manner. You know, uh, we do the extrications on the auto on, on car accidents and stuff like that. But the overall goal is for the ladder tender is to save the wear and tear on that $2 million truck.

[00:22:19] Like to give you an idea, an LT might cost $750,000 and versus a $2 million ladder. So we can, we can keep that ladder in service for longer by running the LTs. And it's a good deal. And like I said, it's all the same equipment with the exception of that big ladder. Uh, we don't carry that big ladder on the truck. And when we need the big ladder, whether it's for, um, a technical rescue or, uh, for a fire,

[00:22:48] we definitely take it. But if we, if we don't need it, then we use the truck that's more affordable to drive around. So that's a, that's an LT. Uh, Seth mentions HDRs. That's a heavy duty rescue. HDRs are kind of like LTs in that they have a very specific function. Uh, heavy duty rescues typically are designed for certain technical rescue type things like high angle hazmat.

[00:23:17] Um, you know, they still do extrication in our system. Heavy duty rescues can still do ventilation and stuff like that. Um, but they're, they're, their vehicles are more, uh, designed for the technical rescue side of things. Uh, these are going to be your more nerdy firefighters. They're going to be good with ropes and knots. They're going to be good with, with, um, high angle rescues.

[00:23:43] You know, they're, they're the experts that we call in when it's hazmat and that kind of thing. So that's what an HDR is. Hopefully this is informative and not boring. So let's go ahead and, uh, jump into our interview with Seth. Oh, I should let you know some of the audio drops out a little bit just briefly, but I don't think that it's so bad that you can't get the, the gist. It drops out in two different places, but I, I, you still get the gist of what we're talking about.

[00:24:12] So, um, I think we're okay there. All right, let's go ahead and listen to the interview. I am here with Seth from Oshkosh, but really Pierce. Correct. And you guys have an electric fire truck. Yes, we do. Uh, it has been in development for quite a while. We have worked very hard, very closely with, uh, fire departments, uh, from around the country. And we think that we have something that is a unique in this industry that really meets the firefighters needs.

[00:24:38] Now, uh, so I was, I was, I was talking to, uh, Todd and, and some of the other, uh, folks before you got here. Uh, I don't think people really understand like the demands that are put on a fire truck just in water weight alone. You could be easily between four and 8,000 pounds and maybe more depending on the, your water tank size. That's just in water. There's the, the truck is so heavy. We're driving it like a sports car.

[00:25:03] Um, what kind of things are, you know, fire department scene in terms of maintenance after a period of time? Oh, absolutely. There is, the trucks can weigh 50,000 pounds or more. And like you said, they are driven like sports cars. The, the number one thing is to, when the call comes in for the fire station to get to the scene, whether it's an accident, uh, whether it's a fire or something as quickly as possible. And, uh, there are different systems on there that can help change the, uh, the lights at

[00:25:32] intersections. They get them there faster. There's weaving in and out of traffic. Um, obviously people have, uh, have been driving around, have, have witnessed that. And so it's very heavy vehicles that are getting tossed around, you know, like a race car trying to get to where they need to go as soon as possible. It does put a lot of wear and tear on the engines, uh, on the transmissions as you're on the drive line, as you're, you know, increasing that torque. And, uh, it, it is a hard environment.

[00:26:00] And a lot of times, um, for those that have spent time driving around in city streets, there are lots of potholes. Uh, if streets aren't well-maintained railroad tracks, things like that, that if you normally want to slow down with your pickup truck or your car to drive over a pothole or drive around, when you have a 50,000 pound vehicle, you're focused on getting there no matter what. And so they don't slow down for potholes or for railroad tracks or anything like that. So there is a lot of wear and tear that goes into every, you know, everything on here, the

[00:26:30] suspension, the joints, uh, things, things like that. Yeah. And because, you know, it's, it's a, it's a standard diesel motor, you're going to have leaks. You're going to have, uh, you know, oil leaks, coolant leaks. You're going to have hoses blow at the most inopportune times too. Uh, how does the Volterra fix that? So the Volterra we have designed as a fully electric vehicle with a diesel engine backup.

[00:26:59] So then we, we've, I say what you like to, we've designed it for the 1%. 99% of the time, the diesel engine does not need to come out to, to turn on. But so the, the vehicle, when you start driving it, it operates fully electric mode, uh, as standard all the time and it will stay in fully electric mode as long as it possibly can. The system is smart enough. It is watching the battery load.

[00:27:27] And so as the battery state of charge starts to get lower and lower and lower, it will recognize the, the vehicle will recognize that. And if it is still needed, it will automatically turn on the diesel engine, get the diesel engine warmed up. So if you're in Canada and it's 10 below zero and you're driving down the road and you're running out, your batteries are getting low. It will start the engine up sooner and get it up to temperature. And then it will, will seamlessly switch over.

[00:27:53] The only time this vehicle will ever do that is when the state of charge of the battery is low. So what we have, because when a call comes in, the firefighter doesn't know if he is going on a medical call because someone's having a heart attack or whether he's going to a five alarm structural fire and might need to be there for three, four, five days, you know, pumping water at a, at a big industrial site. So we have to design it for that 1%.

[00:28:19] We can't have a fire continue to rage and the vehicle become ineffective when the batteries, when the batteries have run out of power, if it needs to be there for, uh, for hours, days on end. But what we have found is that 99% of the calls are the, the vehicle will, will go out to a situation. If there's a car crash, if there's someone having a heart attack, uh, if there's a car

[00:28:44] fire dumpster fire, it will drive the 10 city blocks, 15 city blocks, uh, whatever is needed. And it will park and they will administer first day. They will try to get people out of the wrecked car. Uh, they will, you know, can pump water and put out the fire. And when they are done on scene, they drive back to the station and then they, they, they plug it in. And so they will do that 10 to 20 times a day or more, depending on how busy the station is.

[00:29:14] And so when the truck is not being used, it is always back in the station getting plugged in. And so what we have found is that we have had some customers where they have gone for months on end without the diesel engine ever having to, uh, start up because they have not had to run the battery down low enough to kick in, to kick that in. But at the end of the day, the firefighters, their job is to save lives and to put out fires. And so that is why we have that backup system.

[00:29:42] So we do not want them to not be able to do their job because there wasn't enough electricity in the batteries on board. Okay. And then that kind of leads us to my next question, which is battery pack size and range. Listen, I get that this is a loaded question because every fire department is going to configure their, their trucks in a, in a completely different way. Correct. And it's not going to be consistent, but rough, rough numbers for battery pack size. And then what you're getting for range.

[00:30:10] Um, rough numbers is we have roughly 250 kilowatt hours of battery power on here. And if you were to just straight drive the vehicle, you can drive it straight for about 60 miles before the battery state of charge will be low enough. Well, it will turn the diesel engine on to continue. However, fire trucks are rarely just driven continuously. They were, if it is, if the, the fire departments, um, range their territory, if it's a 20, you know,

[00:30:39] 20 square blocks, uh, from the station, if there's an incident that's 21 blocks away, that's going to be the other station, uh, in their territory and they will pick it up. So it's rare for the fire truck to have to drive for long extended periods of time. It's, it's generally short drives. They're sitting there, they're, they're pumping water. Uh, the truck is waiting for the, for the firefighters to, uh, to return at, in this case, it's not burning any diesel fuel because there's no, it's, you know, the vehicle is not having

[00:31:08] to sit there idly idling like the other conventional fire trucks are when it's sitting there. It's not using up any electricity other than, uh, the pittance that the, uh, the emergency lights on and then the vehicle comes back. And so, yes, if you were to straight drive it, try to compare it to, you know, uh, you know, a Tesla, for instance, it's 50,000 pounds, you know, vehicle, you can get 60 miles of driving range out of it, but it's, we, it has been designed specifically for this use

[00:31:38] case for the firefighter use case. Um, we could add more battery, add more battery adds way more cost, adds considerably more weight to it. And there's additional trade-offs that the firefighters have to have too little battery and the engine is having to come on a lot more often than they want. And so we've put a lot of effort, a lot of development working with fire departments around the country to determine how much battery capacity that we need on here. That is the, that is the right balance between cost and performance.

[00:32:06] And as I said, we have had several departments where they have gone for months without the engine ever needing to turn on and they've used it as a, as a frontline vehicle. Okay. So that leads me into my next question is no fire departments need a custom truck. And the reason why is not every single fire service area is, is, uh, you know, identical.

[00:32:31] Like we do have some, uh, river bottom that we cover, but we have a brush truck, you know, the fire trucks could drive down there, but likely won't. Um, so what kind of customization can we do with the Volterra as opposed to the standard fire truck? That is the beauty of the system that we have done. Uh, we know our customers very well. We've been in business for well over a hundred years and we have taken a lot of that into account in terms of our development.

[00:33:01] So where we have located the batteries, where we have located, um, the, the high voltage components, we have done something different instead of the traditional skateboard model, where the batteries are hanging low down below the frame rails. And then they take up compartment space or anything like that. What we have done is we have placed the batteries. So they are vertical and they stand up in a compartment right behind the cab.

[00:33:25] Uh, and so from, uh, the cab, from the pump house, from the rear body, uh, the fire department can order this exactly how every other, um, in this case, uh, pumper truck that they have. So if they have, if they have 20 pumpers across four different stations, uh, that are all configured the same, they can get exactly the same thing here. All we do is we need 20 inches of, of length in order to stick our, our batteries right behind the cab.

[00:33:55] But otherwise the pump house, everything else on the vehicle is identical to every other one that they have. The cab is identical to every other one they have. So if, uh, if a chief is short in one station and they need, uh, to pull someone from another department in, they can jump in to the Volterra and it operates just like all any of their other enforcers, uh, everything is compartmented the same. Uh, all the, the pump house is identical to, to, you know, the enforcer that a pumper that

[00:34:24] they would have at their station. It drives the same. You just press D the, like I said, it's everything. It starts off with operating in electric and the truck itself is smart enough to know when the battery's getting low, it will start that up. So the firefighter does not need to do anything outside of a normal. They drive it how they would traditional fire truck. They, they turn the pump on how they would a traditional fire truck. They pull hand lines.

[00:34:50] And once the, once the battery gets low enough, it will automatically start that up and it requires no user, no manual intervention by the firefighter. Okay. So then, uh, in, in, in Arizona, we have these things called ladder tenders. So we don't drive our ladders everywhere cause the ladder costs, you know, $2 million plus. So we'll, we'll buy a cheaper truck that has all the same equipment on it, but it doesn't have the big ladder. Uh, can somebody come to you and be like, I want to buy a ladder tender. I don't want the pump.

[00:35:19] I just want a toolbox basically on wheels. Can that be purchased from Pierce? Uh, it, it can be purchased from Pierce for right now. We are rolling our Volterra, you know, powertrain is basically what we're calling it. We are in the process of rolling that out across the, the different vehicles that, uh, that we, you know, different fire trucks that we make at Pierce as, as a firefighter, you know, there are lots of different kinds, uh, like you just mentioned. Um, our largest volume is, is in the engine trucks, the pumpers.

[00:35:49] And so that's where we have started. Uh, we do have plans to be bringing this same capability into the other vehicles, whether it's HDRs, whether it's aerials, whether it's, you know, uh, customized ones like you have. If you have a, a fire truck today, um, we, you will be able to have that exact same fire truck in a Volterra configuration, uh, at some point in the future. Okay. And, uh, just the, another quick question. And then I'll, I got a comment for you guys.

[00:36:18] It's a, it's a little bit of praise for Pierce, but I, I, uh, what, what, what does the infrastructure need to look like back at the station to charge this? Uh, correct. And that is one of the things that you do need to have, uh, fast charging, a fast charge capability in the station. And, uh, so that can mean upgrading and needing to upgrade your station so that you can have the power available, uh, in order to put a fast charger in. There are many companies that are out there, uh, that do that.

[00:36:47] What we have found was that, um, every municipality that is looking at our fire department that's looking at doing that in general, the city is going to have a contract with a certain company for their city buses, for other, you know, other vehicles that they have purchased that are, that are, uh, electrified. And so the fire department would then work with the city and work with the con with the company that they have contracted in. Uh, it, it, depending on how old the station is, it could mean, uh, pulling in, you know,

[00:37:17] spending, you know, several hundred thousand dollars to bring an upgraded service, uh, into that. But then once you have it, uh, you have it, it's not a special charger just for this truck. Uh, we use, uh, standard, uh, you know, North American charging, um, infrastructure can be used on this. Um, one of our, one of our customers, uh, he just recently took delivery on a brand new, uh, Volterra pumper enforcer, but he was building a new fire station.

[00:37:45] And so he, he, uh, stationed the, uh, the Volterra, uh, enforcer Volterra in the new station because he was able to have all that infrastructure built into the station. And he said it was a considerable cost savings for them to have it. If you were building a station from, from scratch to have it built in as opposed to having to upgrade, uh, another station. Yeah. It's, it's nutty because you got to pull power in from somewhere. So it's, it's a lot easier to do it at the beginning. All right.

[00:38:15] So what are we looking at in terms of build time and price? Um, build time is about the same as what, uh, what a normal truck is. So this runs down the same production line as all of our other, uh, all of our other Pierce. And there are, everything is, is subcomponent, you know, up just like everything else. Uh, this does have a, a separate, you know, a new station at the end, uh, where they, uh,

[00:38:40] where the batteries are placed onto the truck and then the truck is commissioned, but it's, it's not hand built. It's run down, run down the same production line that our other vehicles are. Um, from a price standpoint, it is a premium price just because it is a new disruptive technology. Um, I like to say, um, you know, I recently bought a 75 inch, uh, TV, you know, LCD TV from, uh, from Costco for $600 and five years ago, it was probably $12,000 in here at CES.

[00:39:10] And so like everything else, this is new there. It is a price premium for it. Uh, we anticipate as, as the volumes go up, like everything else, the volumes go up. Uh, the costs are going to come down on it. Okay. And, and I've, I've heard the numbers, uh, two to three years for build time and right now, and then, you know, around $2 million. Does that sound close? Um, I, I think that from a build time, we do have a, a long, um, queue, uh, you know,

[00:39:39] a long backlog, uh, in our system. If someone wanted a Volterra, because we don't want to come out with a brand new, uh, Volterra product, and then someone wants to buy one and we say, sorry, you have to wait till the end of the line, uh, to get it because we're all, we're all booked up. We have designated line slots that we have, uh, put in our production schedule for the next few years that we, we have those and we can make those, uh, make, you know, we can

[00:40:06] use those for Volterra so that if you buy one, you don't have to wait until the end, you can get a Volterra, uh, get a Volterra sooner. Oh, that's great. Uh, my chief is going to be very happy to hear that. All right. Yeah. Um, okay. So here, I'm going to heap a little praise on Pierce here. I was back in 2019 in February and, uh, one of the days we were there, it snowed and the, the, the factory floor, it was like basically empty. And I said, where's everybody at? And they're like, ah, it snowed. Their families are home. And I was like, you guys, you guys good with this? Cause I'm, I'm very pro labor. And I was like, you guys good with this?

[00:40:35] They're like, yeah. I mean, it's like everybody at the factory, everybody we talked to in the offices, there was such a chill, like relaxed state about the company. You could tell that the employees were happy whenever somebody, whether they are machining a tool or they are putting parts on the truck, they always took the time to stop and talk to us. And that really meant a lot to the group that, that I was with. But I know like there was like, uh, I think Escondido was there.

[00:41:03] There was like a ton of other very large departments there. And it didn't matter if it was us or, or, uh, one of those larger departments with a group of like 15, they had so many, um, they, every single person took the time away from their job, which in, in some industries they'd be like, Hey man, you got to finish your work. But no, it was encouraged that you had your employees. Absolutely. And basically educate us on what it takes to build a truck. Right.

[00:41:33] And that the culture in this company, uh, not just Pierce manufacturing, uh, but Oshkosh, I've worked for Oshkosh corporate for Oshkosh defense for Oshkosh airport products. And, uh, most recently for Pierce manufacturing, I started back in 96. It's an amazing company. The culture that we have here is wonderful. And it's one of those things where we've learned that the people take pride in what they, and what they do. And to be able to talk to the firefighters, they, they, they want to explain what they

[00:42:02] do because they're, they're proud of it. And having that, being able to allow them to have that interaction, it gives them a boost and, you know, productivity stays up because they're, they're proud of what they do. They get to show it off. They get to talk to the firefighters, the end users, and, uh, that's, they find that extremely fulfilling. And, uh, and so that, that continues to just add. And so, uh, as you said, it's, um, there is obviously a lot of pressure and a lot of stress on there, but, uh, in getting vehicles out.

[00:42:32] But the atmosphere that we have here is, is very much a family atmosphere. We are, everyone is very proud of the work that they do. They love the interaction with, uh, with the end customers. When the firefighters come in, we give everyone the Pierce experience, whether, um, I've gone out to dinner, uh, with, you know, big departments that, uh, that have bought, uh, you know, 20 trucks at a time. And I've also gone out to dinner, uh, with a small municipality in Texas and, uh, they, you

[00:42:59] know, they passed the boot for five years and raised money. And they were so excited to buy a Pierce enforcer. And, uh, and it was, uh, you know, the, the city, the city manager of this little, of this little town. Um, she was, uh, in her late seventies and her husband was, was the fire chief and he was in his, uh, in his late seventies too. And it was a small town of like 75 people. And, uh, and they were just amazed at, at the treatment that they got here.

[00:43:27] And they were just so, so pleased to have, you know, to have been able to, to buy a Pierce and come up here and meet everyone. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very encouraging it, uh, for those of us, uh, that, you know, when you sit behind the desk, a lot of times, uh, being able to have that interaction and, and see the reaction of people and how pleased they are to be able to, uh, to, uh, to have a Pierce truck and how excited they've been waiting for years that, uh, that really does, you know, when, when, uh, when the stress gets high, you do, you know, remember that,

[00:43:56] that, Hey, we're doing this for a reason and people really appreciate it. Yeah. And that's not an uncommon story where the community members come together and, and buy something for the department outside of what their normal tax base is. Yeah. It's very, it's not uncommon at all. And, and, and just, uh, you know, I can specifically remember them and they were so happy and they were just, it was, it was like, like Christmas for them to be able, it's been a dream that they had been working on for years. And they were finally up at Pierce doing a final inspection and taking delivery, uh, on their truck.

[00:44:24] And they had been working with the community, raising funds, you know, on their own outside of the taxpayer dollars. Uh, and, uh, it's, it's, it's really, it's really joyous to be able to see that and to be a part of that. Excellent. Seth, thank you very much for your time. It has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. All right, buddy. That was good. I would like to thank Seth for agreeing to come on and be interviewed by me. It was a, it was a cool interview. Like this is something that I've been wanting to do for a long time.

[00:44:53] Like I wanted to talk to Aptera for a long time, Scout for a long time and, uh, Pierce for a long time. So they checked three things off my bucket list. However, the Aptera thing, we'll discuss that later. It didn't go as I expected, but yeah, it was pretty cool. It was a pretty cool experience for me. All right. If you have thoughts, you can email me. It's Bodie, B-O-D-I-E at 918digital.com. You can also find me on Twitter at 918digital.

[00:45:19] I did get some, um, suggestions for snow tires. I actually got one suggestion for snow tires for EVs, specifically EV pickup trucks. But if you want, uh, if you have some information to pass along, uh, please email me at the email address that I just gave you. And then you can also find me on X at 918digital. And then just kind of as a personal note, new season of Beyond the Post is out with, um, mine and Rob Dunwood's podcast.

[00:45:48] And we talked to Corey Gums of the Black Podcasters Association and, uh, about building communities. And man, Corey knows a lot about building communities. He also knows a lot about being a steward of a community and taking care of those folks who are in his community. So, yeah, I learned a lot. So I'll put a link in the show notes as well. Uh, or you can go to 918digital.com and you can listen to those podcasts. All right.

[00:46:19] I hope everybody has a wonderful weekend and I will talk to you on Tuesday.