Monetizing Content: 7 Effective Strategies

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[00:00:42] Welcome back to Beyond The Post with Rob Dunwood and Bodie Grimm. I'm Rob Dunwood and I'm Bodie Grimm.

[00:00:51] And in this Between The Post episode we're going to be talking about content monetization strategies. We've got seven ways you can generate revenue from your audio and or video content, a few of which you can implement before you record your first episode.

[00:01:02] Between The Post episodes where Rob and I offer you practical actionable advice to elevate your content and make it truly stand out.

[00:01:09] So Bodie, with all that being said I am really really really excited to jump into this episode because we're going to be talking about monetization strategies.

[00:01:19] I would have to say that this is probably a top three area, top three topic that I get asked about when it comes to podcasting, when it comes to making YouTube videos. How can you make money from doing this?

[00:01:34] I would imagine Rob there's a lot of misconceptions that people have when it comes to making a podcast in general and then making money. It's a multi-prong attack to make money either through podcasting or any sort of content creation.

[00:01:53] And we have some examples.

[00:01:56] We definitely do. We're going to go through seven of these topics and it's interesting Bodie because particularly with new content creators, they tend to think that the only way to generate income from the content that they're creating is to put some type of display ads or you know,

[00:02:16] some type of something that programmatically plays that's going to make you a few cents for every person that hears and is actually it's probably not even a few cents. It's more like, you know, if you get a good CPM, you might, you know, RPM, you might be getting in the range of $15 to $25 for 1000 listens.

[00:02:34] But that's the only thing that people tend to talk about. And that's, we definitely listed it as one of the, you know, topics or one of the strategies we're going to talk about, but definitely want to go through a few more of these because as we said, there are some of these things that you can actually do before you ever record your first episode.

[00:02:52] For sure. Do you want to do want to start off with swag or merch?

[00:02:57] Absolutely. So swag or merch and this is when you have a show, you're generally going to have some type of logo, you're going to have some podcast artwork, you're going to have something that you can slap onto a mouse pad that you can slap on to a mug that you can put on a hat, a T-shirt, a hoodie or whatever the case is.

[00:03:18] But this is something that you can absolutely do before you even record. If you've got artwork, if people rock with your show, they're going to want to get into that artwork. They're like, hey, I'd like to have that hat. I would like to have that T-shirt.

[00:03:32] So one of the things I recommend for content creators, especially when you have a visual component, when you do have podcast artwork or you've got a logo that's associated with your YouTube channel, slap that stuff on a T-shirt.

[00:03:44] There's multiple ways to do it. I use one of my favorites is called Teespring, but there's Printful, there's PrintShirt. There are all kind of print on demand type situations out there that they generally cost you nothing but an hour to set up.

[00:04:02] You literally have to create an account, upload your artwork and then choose the assets that you would like to create and they handle everything from there.

[00:04:09] I've heard some, and I'm doing air quotes for people who are listening and not watching right now. Some experts say, oh, well you shouldn't try to monetize your show until you've done 25 episodes or you've done 100 episodes.

[00:04:22] I don't really agree with that. I think that if you know you want to monetize your show from day one, start doing things that you can monetize your show with from day one. Creating merch is one of those things.

[00:04:33] I always kind of take the approach that there's no reason to punish someone who rocks with you from the beginning, who wants to buy a T-shirt. Why punish them and say, no, you can't do it until 99 other people rock with me and then you can all get in on this.

[00:04:51] These things are print on demand. You can literally do onesies and twosies at a time. So I am a big, big fan of any type of swag you can create for your show.

[00:05:02] Yeah, I also use Spring for my other show. And I will say this in terms of because you said it perfectly on why people would want to buy this stuff.

[00:05:12] If you are creating a podcast with the intention and I don't think people in general do this, but with the intention of I'm going to make as much money as fast as I can off of my listeners or viewers or readers, it's not going to work.

[00:05:29] Like people are going to see through that and they're not going to want to buy something from you or support you in any way.

[00:05:38] But if you can create that connection with these folks, they want to help you out. They want to feel like they're a part of the community.

[00:05:45] And Rob and I talk about this a lot is building community and the stronger of a community you have, the more that people want to help you out and the more they want to be a part of that community

[00:05:56] and actual active members in that community. And a lot of the things that we're going to talk about today require your audience to actually be a part of a community.

[00:06:10] They need to have some buy-in and feel invested in what they're doing and swag is a big thing.

[00:06:15] Like I have a couple of things, actually I think it took my head upstairs.

[00:06:19] Oh, it's right here.

[00:06:21] See this right here, Rob? Little pod feet.

[00:06:24] I have a pod feet hat.

[00:06:26] Now, see you don't have to say anything more.

[00:06:27] I already know that is that hat is specifically from Allison Sheridan and Steve Sheridan, her husband and producer of the No Silicast podcast.

[00:06:38] And they're 15, I think she's 15 years.

[00:06:41] Is that what the 15 represented 15 year anniversary of their show?

[00:06:43] Well, that one was 15. That one's a little old.

[00:06:47] I don't want to say that they're well beyond 15 at this point.

[00:06:50] But yeah, it's just like it's just something that you know.

[00:06:53] I've got a pod feet mug that I've got sitting up on my desk in my upstairs office.

[00:06:59] So yeah, swag, merchandise.

[00:07:03] I understand where some of the experts are saying, well, you shouldn't try to monetize until you've built up an audience.

[00:07:09] But I look at it like this.

[00:07:12] You can, of course, get a hat for yourself.

[00:07:14] You can get a t-shirt from yourself.

[00:07:15] You can brand your own show by wearing your own shirt on your own show.

[00:07:19] And but you may have someone who's listening or watching at the very beginning and says, oh, that's a cool shirt.

[00:07:25] I like to get it.

[00:07:26] I don't see a reason to punish that person and say, well, no, you've got to wait until we get to this arbitrary number of downloads that you may or may not ever get to.

[00:07:35] Agreed.

[00:07:36] So, Bodie, the next area that we're going to talk about is patronage and sponsorship.

[00:07:42] Can you kind of explain to our listeners what, you know, what patronage is or what sponsorships, you know, actually look like when you've got people directly sponsoring your show?

[00:07:53] Well, when this became popular for creators to do, the only thing I could think about was like in before medieval times and the Renaissance when some rich family would sponsor an artist.

[00:08:07] And basically they just lived at their palace and they, they paid them to do artwork and that kind of thing.

[00:08:13] And that's, that's kind of what the patronage model or value for value model is, is you like what I'm doing.

[00:08:22] So you're going to help fund the show.

[00:08:27] And that could be done several different ways.

[00:08:30] It could be done on an ongoing basis.

[00:08:32] It could be done with just a one Z to Z donation or it could kind of be a combination of methods.

[00:08:40] I actually, when people say, what do you mean by patronage?

[00:08:43] The first thing I think of is PBS.

[00:08:46] So we all know PBS, where, you know, Sesame Street back when Bodie when you and I were kids, we had Mr. Rogers, neighbor, yeah, all these good content.

[00:08:55] And there's so much more on PBS, but this is the public broadcasting system.

[00:08:59] So this is, this is content that is funded 100% by patrons, by people who I'm going to donate money to, you know, to PBS or PBS can continue to put out this great programming that it does.

[00:09:16] Now, there are going to be once again, there's going to be some people say, no, that's not really the kind of thing I'm looking to do.

[00:09:23] You know, that's not for me. And that's okay.

[00:09:25] But there are many, many, many, many, many, many people who will support content because they understand that I get value out of listening to you out of watching you every day, every week, every month or whatever your cadence is.

[00:09:39] And they will actually send money to you for your show to help you produce it and defer some of those costs.

[00:09:45] So arguably the most popular way to do this is a system called Patreon, where, you know, Patreon kind of works on a couple of different levels.

[00:09:55] But at the pure patronage standpoint is just a way where folks can actually say I want to contribute to the well-being of this show on a monthly basis or whatever that cadence is, where you actually are paying a little bit every single month to help that content.

[00:10:14] Patronage can also kind of move into memberships a little bit. We'll talk about that in just a second.

[00:10:19] You can also see people who do direct sponsorships.

[00:10:22] So you may say, well, I don't want to do a monthly type of thing. I would just like to donate to your show once.

[00:10:28] So you'll see things like buy me a coffee. People might use Cash App or PayPal or other things like that to where you just got a system set up to where someone can simply just donate to your show and use those funds to defer the cost of actually producing that show.

[00:10:41] And for a content creator, this is at least in my experience, this is a more stable way of monetizing your show because people who go to a service like Patreon, for instance, and they take the time to create account with their credit card information in and sign up,

[00:11:05] they're going to be with you for the long haul. And over the five or six years that I've done the Patreon for my other show, I've had very little turnover.

[00:11:17] Like I still have the first five folks who signed up for my Patreon, they're still hanging out. They're still hanging out and they're interacting on a regular basis with me.

[00:11:30] And it's one, it helps you know who your audience is but two, I've gotten a lot of friends that I have never met through just interactions through that Patreon.

[00:11:43] So there's more value than money, I should say when it comes to this kind of sponsorship.

[00:11:50] There definitely is. One of the other things we want to talk about, we're going to eventually start talking about ads as things you can do.

[00:11:56] But one of the nice things about systems like Patreon is that let's say you do have ads on your show.

[00:12:04] You've gotten to that point where it makes sense for you to actually put whether they're direct sponsorships or programmatic ads on your show.

[00:12:11] There are a lot of people, there are a lot of listeners who just don't like to listen to ads.

[00:12:15] So you can use patronage to say, well hey, if you're getting value out of this show and you don't want to listen to ads to help defer the costs,

[00:12:25] you can become a patron to help defer the cost.

[00:12:27] And one of the features of Patreon is the ability to actually set up a private RSS just for patrons.

[00:12:34] It doesn't have to be for every patron but patrons who get to a certain level or certain tier as Patreon calls it.

[00:12:40] Can actually get an ad free RSS.

[00:12:43] So you can actually set your system up so that all those folks who say, I don't like listening to ads, you can actually give them ad free RSS so they don't have to listen to them.

[00:12:53] Another thing that you should be doing with your patron is you should be providing extra content because these are the folks that are literally paying you to produce your show.

[00:13:04] Whether that's a dollar or $100, give them some extra.

[00:13:10] You got to kick them back a little bit and give them a taste of something that's exclusive.

[00:13:17] It can't be, I mean, I guess you could have just an ad free feed.

[00:13:24] I don't know how many people would go just for the ad free but if you can provide a little.

[00:13:30] Believe it or not, Bodhi quite a few.

[00:13:32] And this is how I said that patronage kind of slides into the next area we want to talk about which is like private content or memberships.

[00:13:39] And that's where I stick this in.

[00:13:41] So Patreon also I have that number one for private content and membership.

[00:13:44] So this is where you're providing that bonus content.

[00:13:47] You're going to do fan shows that only your patrons can listen to.

[00:13:50] You're going to actually do after parties or you're going to do a pre show where people can literally come in and listen to us have conversations in the green room before we actually start recording our show.

[00:14:02] Those type of things I tend to lump into the private content membership category and I look at that different than patronage because there are some people that's like, no, I don't need extra stuff.

[00:14:13] I just want the ability to email you where I know you're going to read it.

[00:14:16] You know, if I send one and the ability to send you a couple quarters here and there so that you are going to be able to continue to put out this great content that I love.

[00:14:25] That is just pure patronage.

[00:14:27] You know, and like you can do some things to where certain levels you get t shirts or hats or mergers things like that.

[00:14:34] You know, that goes back to the swag and merch section but just pure patronage is just somebody supporting the show when we start to move into that private content or memberships.

[00:14:42] This is where in addition to just getting that ad free stream, you might get bonus content that only people on Patreon or privy to and other systems would be supercast as a is another system is very, very similar to Patreon.

[00:14:59] But it's more specific to just podcasting.

[00:15:01] Patreon can be used for all kind of creators where I supercast is as I said, primarily for podcasting.

[00:15:07] There's memberful.

[00:15:08] There's private RSS feeds depending on what host you use if this is a podcast.

[00:15:14] So I am a huge fan also of private content and memberships whereas, you know, in a couple of my different shows, we actually have where we have set up a discord server and that discord server.

[00:15:29] What you have actually doing the discord server is based on your level of membership in Patreon.

[00:15:34] We have set up where, you know, members can actually join a live stream where we're recording the show live.

[00:15:40] That's something that's only offered to those members of your Patreon.

[00:15:45] We have, you know, things where there is additional content.

[00:15:48] There may be actual downloadables, you know, cheat sheets type of things depending on the type of show that you have that your customers at this point may actually want your members of the community may actually become privy to simply because they have joined your membership.

[00:16:05] Yeah.

[00:16:06] And that's that's way more than I do.

[00:16:09] I in my personal Patreon, I do offer the ad free experience.

[00:16:16] I don't do a lot of extra content.

[00:16:19] But what I what I do and replace that is I have, I think a more interactive role with with my listeners a more one on one role like it doesn't matter if you email me or if you put if you respond.

[00:16:34] Through Patreon, Patreon.

[00:16:35] I don't know if you know Rob through the app.

[00:16:37] They have this really cool like community area that's kind of it's not exactly like discord because you can't set up different rooms and stuff.

[00:16:46] But it's a place where people can chat the comments on each post is really fun for people to go in and talk to you.

[00:16:54] So for my patrons, I did not because I don't have the time I did not set up all of that for them, which you would you definitely can do in different levels.

[00:17:04] But what I try to do is I try to provide that personal element so that when they go in there, they know it might not be that day or within 10 minutes, but they know eventually I'm going to respond to their post.

[00:17:17] And we can have a little conversation about it or if they don't respond back, it's no big deal.

[00:17:23] But the biggest thing that I'm selling through my Patreon is I guess me and access interaction.

[00:17:30] Yeah, it's you know, when your your your content if it gets to a point to where you've got thousands if not tens of thousands of people who are consuming it.

[00:17:42] There could be just a lot of generic messages that come in so a way to prioritize that is OK, well I want to make sure that the folks who are monetarily supporting the show.

[00:17:51] I want to see their content first, I want to make sure that we get back and answer that and it's not not to say that your big time in it and that you know that you know we don't appreciate everyone who listens everyone who watches.

[00:18:04] But you know there are benefits with membership.

[00:18:07] It's still a phrase from American Express.

[00:18:10] There are benefits to being a patron of a show to where your access is going to be a little bit more immediate than say someone who's not supporting the show financially for sure.

[00:18:21] So Bodie this fourth area that we're going to talk about affiliate marketing, you can see that I have bolded this because this is arguably one of my favorite ways to support content.

[00:18:32] People a lot of times when I hear affiliate marketing, they're thinking of these niche websites where you create you know content that is very, very keyword laden where you're trying to dominate a particular keyword.

[00:18:45] So when somebody types in that keyword, they come to your website for a bounce house or something like that and then they click on links on your site to buy bounce houses and you get a commission.

[00:18:54] That is affiliate marketing at the you know at the at the high end or or at the affiliate marketing for affiliate marketing sake standpoint from a podcast or from a YouTube channel.

[00:19:06] The way I look at affiliate marketing is more so of I talk about a lot of things that people ask questions about repeatedly and if I'm using something to make my job easier to make my life easier and people keep asking questions about that.

[00:19:21] If there's an affiliate program, I generally going to sign up to it so that you know it's another way that you know value can be provided.

[00:19:28] So for example at the top of our show we say that our show is brought to you or is made possible by Riverside FM.

[00:19:35] We are affiliates for Riverside FM.

[00:19:39] So what happens is that you know we will you know do our little promo in the show but when we get into strategy and content and how to do things questions are going to come up about how do you actually record when you're remote.

[00:19:51] You know, Bode, you're in Arizona.

[00:19:53] I'm in Ohio.

[00:19:54] You know, that's that's a that's a that's a long drive in between those two places is even a long flight between those two places.

[00:20:01] Well, how are we able to effectively get online and record audio and video in fairly high fidelity?

[00:20:07] Well, we tend to like Riverside FM.

[00:20:10] So we talk about that.

[00:20:11] So when anyone asks us questions about well, hey, what do you used to record want to tell Riverside FM when it says, well, hey, I'm having trouble with, you know, recording in zoom.

[00:20:21] I'm looking for something that maybe can do a little bit more.

[00:20:24] Well, we're going to tell them Riverside FM and because we do that so often it's beneficial to us to recommend them in a way that actually is going to bring a few dollars back to us to help us once again support the you know, the support the making of the show.

[00:20:39] So affiliate marketing, in my opinion, is a is a is a godsend for content creators that talk about things.

[00:20:46] If you teach, preach, explain or or train people how to do something and you're using specific tools to do that.

[00:20:54] There's a good chance that those tools have affiliate partnership programs where you can actually not just talk about the thing that you were going to talk about anyway but actually get paid on it if anybody were to go and subscribe to it.

[00:21:07] So I'm a huge fan of affiliate marketing.

[00:21:10] This is a great way to offer your audience something that they may or may not use but if they do use it and they use your affiliate code, you get paid like how how how great is that the danger you run into is if you if you again and and I don't think anybody listening to this show based on what we've talked about in the past would do this

[00:21:31] but the danger you get into is if you're just trying to get that cash grab then people are going to fall off.

[00:21:35] You have to do it in a way that's that's honest, genuine and you're not recommended a total garbage product.

[00:21:41] It's got to be something that is one probably going to be useful to your particular audience, something that's actually useful to you so you can give a good honest recommendation of it.

[00:21:52] People can smell baloney and they want you to be upfront and honest about what you're recommending to them because it's your reputation that's on the line if it turns out to be a bad product and a bad experience.

[00:22:12] Here's how I look at affiliate marketing from this standpoint from the standpoint of content creators.

[00:22:21] You and I talk about podcasting and you tubing and blogging and newsletter writing and all these things that people are coming to us to ask our opinions on.

[00:22:31] And so it is not uncommon for someone to say hey, Bodie, what do you use to host your podcast on? Hey Rob, what do you use to host your website on?

[00:22:41] Hey Bodie, what do you use to create your transcripts in? Hey Rob, what do you use to host your website on?

[00:22:48] These questions get asked to us because people look at us and say hey well they clearly have a clue as to what they're doing.

[00:22:56] I would like to fast track my ascension into this realm or into this area of content creation and maybe do some things that can save me some time even though they may cost me something on the front end.

[00:23:10] So I look at it no different than if I were building a deck and someone said hey Rob, what order did you use to dig your holes?

[00:23:18] Well I've got experience because I used to build decks when I was a kid so here's a good one. Just a recommendation.

[00:23:25] But in our area we can make those recommendations with links and then it doesn't cost you anything more as the person who's clicking on the link.

[00:23:35] You can decide you don't want to click on the link. You can just listen to it and just go. That's fine too but for those who actually say hey I'm going to go look at this thing that was recommended,

[00:23:44] I want to click on their link to make sure they get a couple bucks if I actually decide to purchase and that's really all the affiliate marketing is in the way that I look at it.

[00:23:52] This is a way that you can actually help support a platform that is giving you content that you find valuable.

[00:23:59] So Rob, we're doing an affiliate for Riverside. If Squadcast came to us tomorrow and be like hey we want to sponsor your podcast,

[00:24:09] that Riverside promo is going away real fast. Squadcast is a great service. I have zero problem with it but the amount of money that you're going to make from a direct sponsorship versus an affiliate marketing link is significant.

[00:24:24] Right, so direct sponsorship is when you've generally you've reached out to an organization and you've made a pitch to them about how you can help them reach some of their goals with their content or with their products and services.

[00:24:40] And because of that they say yeah this is going to work out for both of us and they actually decide to sponsor your content directly.

[00:24:48] Now I'm going to be honest. I have heard of people who have actually been able to get direct sponsorships before they actually recorded their first episode.

[00:24:56] That however is probably rare. Usually these companies that are doing direct sponsorship, they're going to want to be able to check you out a little bit, see the kind of content that you've made.

[00:25:11] So usually when I hear that someone was able to do a direct sponsorship and they haven't even recorded an episode yet, well that's a new show but they were already a known entity.

[00:25:20] The sponsorship, the sponsor I should say knew what they were going to get.

[00:25:24] So when it comes to direct sponsorship there's really two types of campaigns that most companies are going to run.

[00:25:32] They're going to run a awareness campaign where they're literally just trying to get eyeballs or eardrums on their content.

[00:25:41] And in a lot of ways that's going to require you to have some traffic because if the goal is well we need to get this message in front of a million people,

[00:25:50] they can deal with 10 companies to get 100,000 listeners a month or they can deal with 100 companies to get 10,000 a month or they can deal with 1,000 companies to get 1,000 a month and you see how the math goes.

[00:26:02] They're still only getting to a million but they have to deal with more and more and more companies.

[00:26:06] So there generally is going to be a number of listeners, a number of viewers component if they are truly trying to do an awareness campaign unless they have so finely defined their target market that is just absolutely in your wheelhouse.

[00:26:26] So I've seen awareness campaigns hit shows that are only getting 1,000 downloads a month but that's 1,000 download in a really competitive market where it may only be 10,000 people in the world that do that with those 1,000 are listening to you do so it makes absolute sense for that company to sponsor.

[00:26:46] So one of the things I always say when it comes to sponsorships you have to put yourself into the shoes of the company that's doing the sponsorship. There's got to be something in it for them, they're not just trying to hook you up.

[00:26:57] And to just go back to affiliate marketing for a second, I would say that over half of the companies that I've ever done direct sponsorships with I was first an affiliate and what that was able to do was prove to them that my content works.

[00:27:12] So if you become an affiliate for someone and you see right off the bat, you've got 10, 15, 20 affiliate sales off of that it probably will behoove you to contact someone and say hey, in the last two months we've had 20 affiliates come through my account.

[00:27:29] Are you guys interested in maybe doing some of the spoke type of content in a more of a direct sponsorship type of way?

[00:27:37] Yes, and this is not a downside of direct sponsorships by any stretch of the imagination. But it is something you need to be aware of these agreements come with stipulations.

[00:27:51] And there are certain goals that need to be met. And if you can't meet those goals on a download or a view type basis, then a couple of things can happen.

[00:28:06] You might have to pay back some of the money, which is probably unlikely. What's more likely is you'll have to do like a payback. So maybe they somebody buys $1,000 an episode or excuse me, 1,000 listens, an audience of 1,000.

[00:28:22] And they buy that audience for five shows and you get 990 for every show. You don't hit that thousand. Well, at some point in time, I should have made that number bigger, but at some point in time, you're going to have to make that up to the advertiser because they paid for a specific number.

[00:28:45] We'll call them impressions or listens at this point. And if you if you can't hit that in that timeframe, usually you just make it up. It's not the end of the world. But really when you're negotiating those deals, you want to make sure whatever they're wanting to hit, you can meet that goal.

[00:29:06] Otherwise, you need to kind of renegotiate the terms so that you can hit those metrics that they're setting forth. And you also there's a fair amount of paperwork on the back end that you have to send back to let them know, hey, this is how every episode performed.

[00:29:24] Yeah. So with direct sponsorships, I'm a huge fan of them. Second most profitable way I've ever monetized websites or should say, podcasts, in my specific case. But there are other things you need to think about.

[00:29:42] You're generally dealing with contracts that are legally binding. If you're not dealing with a contract that's legally binding, that might be something you need to really look at because why is there no contract? That actually scares me more.

[00:29:56] There is a cost to doing business. Chances are, depending if it's a bigger company, you're going to be working off of their template, off of their contract. But there are going to be some companies that may ask you for a contract.

[00:30:11] So if you know that direct sponsorship is something that you want to get into, it may be a who of you to actually get some hours with your attorney to actually have them create a boilerplate where you can basically change the appendix and a few other areas without having to legally change that document significantly just to kind of go from it.

[00:30:30] I didn't want to read, readdress one thing. I said there was two major ways we talked about two major ways that sponsors generally work. One of them is that awareness campaign where you're just trying to get ears and eyeballs on their content.

[00:30:44] The other one is when they actually are trying to sell something. So this is the type of, I should say a sponsorship where the numbers don't necessarily mean as much to the sponsor as that awareness campaign because now they're like, okay, you have 1500 people who do this, this way with this thing that is going to be very attractive to our product.

[00:31:14] So we want to just get in front of those 1500 people and try to make some sales. So, you know, there's all kind of direct sponsorships. We literally could do an entire not just a show. We could do a series on sponsorships, Bodhi, but just want to let everybody know that that is our fifth way to actually monetize your podcast.

[00:31:32] Or, yep, YouTube channel basically, you know, you can do direct spot. You can even do this inside of, you know, email newsletters as well.

[00:31:40] Yeah, the sixth way. And this is probably, it's going to sound weird. It's probably my least favorite of the seven that we're going to talk about. But it's also if you have a, if you have a decent amount of downloads, it can actually be fairly lucrative.

[00:31:55] This is the thing that most people are aware of when they get into content creation. This is programmatic ads. So you're going to think about when you get monetized on YouTube. That is the thing that so many people want to do. You want to get that.

[00:32:08] I believe it is, you know, 1000 subscribers and 4000 listen hours or watch hours. But these are the ads that just based on an algorithm that here's what your content is about. Here are advertisers who want to advertise on content that is in the

[00:32:27] genre of the stuff that you talk about. And you're going to have these RPM or CPM ads to just show up. And those ads are generally, you know, they can make anywhere from $8 to I've seen some as as high as $50 or even more.

[00:32:44] You know, RPM, which basically means that for every 1000 impressions, you're going to make $50, $25, $8, whatever that number is. These, however, are the type of ads that generally require you to have a fairly massive amount of traffic for it to actually work.

[00:33:06] Just because the, you know, these programmatic ads, these are almost always awareness campaigns that we're just trying to get in front of many people as possible. And the companies that do this, once again, they don't necessarily find it advantageous to them to deal with someone who just started to show this

[00:33:23] only getting 50 downloads an episode. There's just not enough volume to make sense. So we see a lot of content creators get discouraged because I can't get sponsored or I can't get, you know, programmatic match because I just don't have enough volume to actually, you know, make any real money from it.

[00:33:42] So once again, probably not my favorite way, probably my least favorite way to monetize a show. But if you do have a show that starts to get numbers, like if you can get to the point to where you are YouTube monetized, if you can get to the point to where you can get accepted into an ad program for a podcast, that means you're getting enough downloads to where you might be able to make a little bit of change off of programmatic ads running on your show.

[00:34:06] Yeah. And if nothing else, you'll be able to just pay for your show. Like there's nothing wrong with making or breaking even on your show just because you ran some programmatic ads and you have some people on Patreon supporting you. That's actually in the world of creation.

[00:34:23] That is, that's kind of his success. It's really hard to make money doing this. But if you can be successful at it, you could make a nice living. The downside of programmatic ads, problematic ads, that's kind of where I'm going with this. The downside of problematic ads is, I said that on purpose, is you can, like I do a show about electric vehicles and every now and again, I'll get somebody email me in and be like, Hey, I'm going to be successful.

[00:34:53] Hey, this oil company just advertised on your show. Just so you know. And I'll go back and I'll listen to the ad and the oil companies advertising solar or EV charging. So it's appropriate for the show. And I don't necessarily have a problem with oil companies advertising on my show as long as it's not counter, counter programming to what I'm doing.

[00:35:14] So it's fine. I let those go every now and again, I have to send an email off to a cast, which is who I use to let them know, Hey, I prefer this group of folks not advertising my show, but it's not very often. It's probably happened twice since I've been doing ads.

[00:35:30] But you do need to kind of be aware that you may not know what ads are being put on your show. And you may not know what ads are being put on your show in the US or whatever country you're living in.

[00:35:45] But I'll hear from somebody from Sweden and they'll tell me, Hey, just so you know, this ads being played in Sweden. I don't speak Swedish. I don't have any idea what they're saying. I don't even get that report. I don't think Rob, we have the same service. Do you see anything report wise?

[00:36:03] That from different countries, I just got a general statement.

[00:36:06] Yeah, it's just general. I haven't seen anything specific with a cast. I have seen specifics with other platforms. And it really just depends on you know, you know where your show is the other thing and you know what kind of sidebar here on on ads in general.

[00:36:23] So it seems like literally in real time as we are recording this, there is like a sentiment that pops up once or twice a year on social media where there are folks who are just absolutely opposed to content creators putting ads in their content.

[00:36:39] This is much more so an issue for podcasting than it is for YouTube ads because you really don't have any choice if you're watching stuff on YouTube. If you're not paying for YouTube, you're going to see ads. It's just how it is.

[00:36:49] But there are a lot of listeners who really feel some kind of way about being interrupted for that content that they get for free that they are not supporting monetarily that they have to actually listen to ads.

[00:37:04] So I have actually been schooled on this. I understand that there are a lot of content creators that are very, very receptive to this and they do many, many other things to try to generate income from their shows so that they can actually you know put out the content for free that people like to listen to.

[00:37:24] I'm not wired that way. This is a rob thing. I am very sensitive to making sure that the ads align with the content. So if you are a podcast about knitting, you should not be getting ads about high performance tires in your content.

[00:37:48] That I care about where I tend to and it's not even a problem is just something that I don't pay a lot of attention to. If I have a listener and trust me, I actually appreciate everyone who listens to my content.

[00:38:02] I know that it is a choice for me to appear in your ear or in your eye. You know, every week sometimes every day depending on the shows you're listening to I understand that. But if you are saying that I don't like ads, I tend to give you ways to not listen to ads every at every show that I run that has ads on it.

[00:38:21] There is a way for you to get an ad free stream and that would be to become a patron. Now where I do lose patience is when someone says well I don't like ads, but I don't want to pay to be a membership. I just want to listen to your content for free.

[00:38:36] As I said, there are some creators who actually will do things to try to enable that. I'm just not one if you pay to listen to not listen to ads. I will offer that to you if you don't want to pay then you have to listen to the ads.

[00:38:50] Unlike YouTube you can skip the ads on podcast. I mean, I'm not going on recommending the people do that but you can absolutely skip ads in podcast if they're coming to your VRSS something is very easy to do.

[00:39:02] So where I tend to disagree with a lot of listeners is that content is not just free for you to listen to without sometimes having to be inconvenienced by an ad because it costs depending on the popularity of your show and how much time the creators put into it.

[00:39:24] It is a significant cost of time, talent and monetary costs to create content. I am all for content creators and I'm on the entrepreneurial side of podcasting. I am all for those entrepreneurs actually being able to make monetary gains from the content that they're putting out for free in many cases.

[00:39:47] So I just say, well if you decide that you don't want to listen to my show because it has ads in it and you don't want to actually become a patron and support the show monetarily to be completely honest with you that actually is doing me a favor because it costs me less to serve content to the rest of my audience if you decide not to listen.

[00:40:08] The thing that I think maybe a lot of content consumers don't understand is that every time they listen to someone's content there is a cost to the person that created that content when we're talking about podcasting.

[00:40:21] Whether it be that they had to pay for their microphone, they had to pay for the cord to hook the microphone to the mixer, they had to pay for the mixer, they had to pay for the computer to actually edit the show.

[00:40:29] All those things, time and talent, maybe they had to pay for guests to come on their show. Maybe they had to pay for hosts to be on the show.

[00:40:36] These things in many cases are businesses. So when you actually are consuming that content and you're not supporting it by listening to ads and you're not supporting it directly, then you ultimately are costing that creator money.

[00:40:50] You're costing them money to give you that opportunity to listen to their content for free.

[00:40:55] Once again, I appreciate everyone who listens, everyone who watches that does not actually support directly.

[00:41:04] But just understand that you're generally going to see ads so that I can defer the cost of creating the content.

[00:41:10] That is a personal thing for me. I don't put that on everyone but there are some people who fill some kind of way about ads being in podcast.

[00:41:19] I don't want to say that I understand it. I just don't partake in that side of the game.

[00:41:27] If you're listening for free, you're going to get ads. If you actually pay something, then you can forego those ads.

[00:41:33] Yeah, and I will turn this back to the creator in that it's also your responsibility not to overload your show with ads.

[00:41:43] There are a few shows that I love. I'm not going to say their names, not because I don't want to promote them, but there's a lot of ads.

[00:41:53] There is no doubt one of the shows that I listen to that's another EV show and I love the host of this show.

[00:42:01] I think he's fantastic and I'm willing to suffer through it to listen to ads.

[00:42:05] But there is a solid of three minutes of ads post role, three minutes mid-roll and three minutes at the end.

[00:42:11] It's a lot. It is a lot.

[00:42:14] Three minutes pre-roll, that's excessive.

[00:42:18] Yeah.

[00:42:19] This is just my opinion because I know there are people who do that and they're very successful with it.

[00:42:25] That seems excessive to me.

[00:42:27] Generally, I think you're probably going to see maybe one, two, 30 second spots at the beginning of a show.

[00:42:34] If a show is longer than probably 15 minutes long, you might see another 30 second, maybe two, 30 second spots in the middle of the show.

[00:42:41] And then you get what you get at the end.

[00:42:44] I'm not so much concerned at the end of the show as much just because you can kind of stop listening once you get to the ads at the end.

[00:42:51] So I know that some shows will tend to pack on a few more ads at the end.

[00:42:55] But yeah, I try to be respective.

[00:42:58] I know that you didn't come to listen to any of my content for the ads.

[00:43:01] You came to listen for the content.

[00:43:03] So I try to make it as quick to get to as possible and also try to make sure that the ads relate to the content that you're consuming.

[00:43:11] And to make matters worse, he also has direct sponsorships and all of that as well.

[00:43:15] It's a lot to get through but he provides great content.

[00:43:20] In terms of time frame or where you put your ads.

[00:43:24] So you have pre-roll ads at the beginning of the show, mid-roll, somewhere in the middle, post at the end.

[00:43:30] When I first started, I put my ads in only if my show reached 30 minutes.

[00:43:37] And if I'm being 100% honest here, Rob, I tried to reach 30 minutes every show I possibly could and I probably put things in my show that I didn't need to.

[00:43:47] And there were times when I was doing the editing process that I would just start cutting things out and it was like, I am not, this is straight trash.

[00:43:54] I'm not putting this in here.

[00:43:56] So I'm going to start cutting this out and I won't have a mid-roll ad.

[00:43:59] And then I went and I was like, you know what?

[00:44:02] 20 minutes is kind of the sweet spot for my show between 20 and 30 minutes.

[00:44:06] So if it's over 20, I'm going to put a mid-roll ad in there.

[00:44:08] If it's under 20, I'm not and nobody is complained about the change whatsoever.

[00:44:13] I am right there with you.

[00:44:15] So my show could be three minutes long.

[00:44:17] There will be pre-roll and post-roll ads.

[00:44:20] But I would never put mid-roll ads in anything that is less than 15 minutes at the absolute minimum.

[00:44:28] But I'm probably more of a 20 minute type person just because I'm actually looking at the ratio for the amount of content to the number of ads you're going to get.

[00:44:36] So for me, if I'm doing a 20 minute show, I don't want more than two minutes to add.

[00:44:43] I mean, that's 10% of the time of the show.

[00:44:46] So if you're only going to do two minutes, that's four ad spots.

[00:44:49] So I would just say, well, just do two in the front, two in the back for anything under 20 minutes.

[00:44:55] So once again, these are just rules of thumb.

[00:44:59] They're not hard rules.

[00:45:00] It kind of makes sense for you to do.

[00:45:04] But I've heard people say, well, the show is only eight minutes long and you put ads in it.

[00:45:09] It's like, yes, that's how we support the production of the show even though the show is only eight minutes long.

[00:45:15] There's going to be ads there unless you want to become a patron or pay for and add free stream directly from the host.

[00:45:24] Yeah, I'm actually starting rebooting a show that I do with a friend of mine.

[00:45:29] And our goal is to be done under 10 minutes.

[00:45:32] The further under 10 minutes, the better.

[00:45:35] That's our goal.

[00:45:36] We want something that somebody can listen to and then be like cool.

[00:45:40] I can move on with my day.

[00:45:42] I got some good information out of this and a recommendation.

[00:45:45] That's the goal.

[00:45:46] But again, there's no pre-roll ad, but there will be a post-roll and there's no mid-roll ad on that.

[00:45:53] But there will be a pre and post for that particular show.

[00:45:56] And it won't make as much money because mid-roll ads make more money.

[00:46:00] But the amount of time that we have to put into that show isn't quite as much because it's less than 10 minutes.

[00:46:09] We didn't really draw this out because we're on ads.

[00:46:13] There are the programmatic ads that are not host-read.

[00:46:16] Those are the ones that sound like a radio announcer guy or gal, sound like a voice actor.

[00:46:23] That are putting that content in.

[00:46:25] And then there are the actual host-read ads.

[00:46:28] Host-read ads can come in two ways.

[00:46:31] They can come as part of the actual content to where the host may actually go into a sponsored read for a particular show right in the middle of their content because they're making it part of the content.

[00:46:44] There's also going to be programmatically added host-read ads.

[00:46:49] You might hear the host say something like,

[00:46:53] and a word from our sponsor and then you hear the host speaking about an ad that didn't really have anything to do with the show.

[00:47:00] It's related to the content of the show but it didn't have anything to do with that specific show.

[00:47:04] So there's multiple ways you can do it.

[00:47:07] And one thing I will just say for anyone who is thinking that,

[00:47:11] well, I'm just getting started out but I know eventually I'm going to want to do ads.

[00:47:16] I know that I'm eventually going to want to have sponsors on my show.

[00:47:19] I would say get in the habit of creating your own call to actions in the show right off the bat.

[00:47:26] One of the reasons that a lot of people will complain about ad showing up in the show is because they've been listening to something for a year or two and then did not have ads.

[00:47:34] And then all of a sudden, oh now I have ads.

[00:47:37] So it's kind of a jarring experience for them.

[00:47:39] So one of the things you can do to get around that is, well from the very beginning of your show,

[00:47:43] put your own call to actions.

[00:47:45] Create one or two 30 second call to actions for something you would like your listeners to do that of course is beneficial to them as well.

[00:47:53] And just put that in your content.

[00:47:55] It doesn't have to be an ad where you're going to receive monetary value from it but it could just be something that you want them to do.

[00:48:00] Sign up to the newsletter.

[00:48:02] Subscribe to the show.

[00:48:04] Click the bell and like.

[00:48:06] How often do you hear that?

[00:48:08] These are call to actions that you just want to get used to putting in your content so that if that call to action never got replaced with an ad is just not so jarring to the listenership that you've already built up.

[00:48:19] For sure.

[00:48:21] For sure.

[00:48:23] Well that brings us.

[00:48:25] You're on the same page as me.

[00:48:27] That brings us to the last one.

[00:48:29] We're just going to title this your own digital products but it's really just your own products.

[00:48:34] This is not going to work for every type of content.

[00:48:38] But once again if you are teaching, preaching, training, explaining anything, if you know anything that is a complex I would say type of action that someone's going to take your teaching someone how to do something.

[00:48:55] There are often opportunities for you to create your own digital products.

[00:48:59] So in the same way that you would do affiliate marketing for someone else's product, you can actually do call to actions for your own product.

[00:49:06] So I'm just going to make something up here.

[00:49:08] So if you literally are teaching people how to create sponsorships or not create sponsorships if you're teaching someone how to go out and get sponsorships for their show.

[00:49:20] If you're teaching someone how to go out and get grants for their content.

[00:49:23] If you're teaching someone how to do something, you generally can create your own digital product that supports that in a much deeper way than you can ever deliver in a podcast or on a YouTube video.

[00:49:33] So these digital products are something you can actually use your content as a form of content marketing to drive people to your funnel to get them into a digital product that you've actually created and that's where you would generate income for your show.

[00:49:47] It's not direct.

[00:49:48] It's not the podcast made a dollar.

[00:49:51] It is that the podcast recommended something that made probably something significantly more than an hour.

[00:49:57] You could do this.

[00:49:58] I'm going to give you an example and I think we talked about this Rob a couple of weeks ago.

[00:50:02] I'm going to give you an example of somebody I follow on TikTok that did this masterfully, right?

[00:50:07] His name was Michael Jammon.

[00:50:09] He was a writer on King of the Hill.

[00:50:11] He's a writer and showrunner in Hollywood.

[00:50:13] He does these TikToks and they're very much like, hey, we're just sitting down and chilling.

[00:50:18] Most of them are in his office and he'll tell a story from behind the scenes of one of your favorite shows and it's really engaging.

[00:50:26] And then he tells you a lesson about that story, right?

[00:50:30] And initially he was teaching or he was selling access to his screenwriter class that he has.

[00:50:41] And honestly, I'm very close to signing up for this if I ever have time.

[00:50:45] Not because I want to be a screenwriter, but I'm fascinated by that whole process works.

[00:50:50] But one of the things that he came out and said recently is like, listen, I started this two years ago,

[00:50:56] but I got to tell you a story before that five years ago.

[00:51:00] I decided to write a book and it took me five years to write this book.

[00:51:04] And the book is about different things that have happened to him in Hollywood.

[00:51:07] And it's just a collection of stories.

[00:51:09] So the reason why I started this TikTok account was for this book.

[00:51:13] And now I finished the book and I'm asking you to please go and buy my book.

[00:51:18] And I went out and bought his audible, I bought the audio version, the audible version of this book.

[00:51:23] I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but that was a no brainer for me to buy this guy's book because I got so much good information.

[00:51:34] And just it's mostly G whiz for me because I'm not a writer or anything.

[00:51:38] But I had so much information from him when he asked go buy my book.

[00:51:44] I was like, yeah dude, no worries, I got you and immediately went out and bought the book.

[00:51:50] And I think you could do that but you kind of, you have to leverage social media and, you know,

[00:51:57] different relationships to build that kind of trust and loyalty and community for that to work.

[00:52:04] Because if I were to come to you right now and we don't have any, you know, we're recording even before we release our first episode,

[00:52:13] we don't have any community.

[00:52:15] And I was just like, hey, buy this from me.

[00:52:18] I don't know that anybody's going to do that.

[00:52:20] Maybe one or two will.

[00:52:22] But if we build a community together and we are supporting each other and we,

[00:52:30] we get to a point where one of us is offering something and it's interesting.

[00:52:36] Then absolutely people are going to jump on that.

[00:52:39] It's an easier ask once you have that community and that trust.

[00:52:42] And he put out a lot for two years to get to that one ask.

[00:52:47] Yeah, we will certainly do an episode on branding or personal branding and just how powerful that can be.

[00:52:55] But podcast, YouTube channels, you know, these types of multimedia.

[00:53:03] I would even say webinars, things where you're getting in front of people and actually talking.

[00:53:09] And I'll keep going back to this.

[00:53:11] Not all content is created equal.

[00:53:14] So there, there's content out there that is pure entertainment is people are just making you laugh.

[00:53:20] You're probably not going to sell a digital product,

[00:53:22] but they may actually sell as a ticket to go see somebody do a live show.

[00:53:26] So I don't want to make it seem like, well, you have to actually have the type of podcast where you're teaching someone how to do something,

[00:53:32] you're training someone how to do something, you're explaining how something has to be done.

[00:53:36] But there are generally often ways that you can monetize outside of your content.

[00:53:43] Once you've built up what we call no like and trust.

[00:53:46] And I have seen with when it comes to podcast, when it comes to YouTube channels,

[00:53:50] the ability for people to build no like and trust unlike anything else.

[00:53:54] It can be done on social media.

[00:53:56] It can definitely be done in a newsletter.

[00:54:00] But when you are in someone's ear, when you're in someone's eye,

[00:54:04] they get to know you pretty quickly.

[00:54:06] And, Bodhi, I don't know how often this happens to you because you have actually been podcasting for a long time.

[00:54:12] But I've now gotten to the point where people recognize me from things that I've been in when I'm walking through the mall sometimes.

[00:54:21] Hey, are you that guy that's on this show?

[00:54:23] Hey, you do that tech show thing, don't you?

[00:54:26] It's like a buddy of mine said that it was you.

[00:54:29] I want to come up and ask you, I've had this now happen multiple times.

[00:54:32] It's probably not happened more than 10, but it's definitely happened more than five.

[00:54:36] Where I've actually had somebody come up and recognize my voice or recognize my face.

[00:54:40] And even when you are having conversations with people who are part of your community,

[00:54:45] they know a lot about you if you're, you know, when they're listening to you talk to them every day, every week,

[00:54:53] every other week or whatever the case is.

[00:54:55] In some cases, I have shows that go back, you know, a decade and a half.

[00:55:01] You know, my newest show besides this one, we just did episode 119 yesterday.

[00:55:09] That is, you know, that is well over two and a half years of content.

[00:55:12] So people get to know you.

[00:55:14] And you mentioned this earlier that you have some patrons who have been with you since the beginning.

[00:55:19] One of the things we did when we set up our Patreon for one of my shows called the tech John's,

[00:55:23] we did what is called a founding 50.

[00:55:25] So we gave and trying to build up our patron on quickly, we created 50 spots for the first 50 people who are rocking with us right from the beginning.

[00:55:35] They're founding 50 or whatever going to get a really, really good rate that they would be locked into forever.

[00:55:40] And of those 50 people who joined over two and a half years ago, we still have 42.

[00:55:45] Now we have people asking, hey, can I get into the founding 50?

[00:55:48] And you know, no, that was something that was just for the first 50 people.

[00:55:52] We've only lost eight in the two and a half years we've been doing that show.

[00:55:57] And I want to say that we got our first 50 probably in the first three weeks of the show's launch.

[00:56:02] So you're right. People will stick with you when they get to know you and like you,

[00:56:06] they will stick with you for years and decades in some cases where there are many major cities that I couldn't go to.

[00:56:14] In the United States and find someone who listens to something that I've done and at the very least go have a drink with them, you know, at an establishment.

[00:56:22] And I will say, this is maybe a one off in my situation, but I signed up for the tech John in the founding 50.

[00:56:30] I'm still in the founding 50.

[00:56:32] And then two years later, three years later, two and a half years later, Rob and I are doing a podcast together.

[00:56:38] Now there's a lot that went into there.

[00:56:40] I just didn't sign up and he decided I was cool.

[00:56:42] But, you know, he never know where it's going to go.

[00:56:45] You know, communities, they tend to pop up quickly and go away quickly or they tend to pop up quickly and stay around forever.

[00:56:55] You know, you can't call it from day one.

[00:56:58] I mean, there's some tricks and we'll talk about these things in other in other episodes where we can get really in the community building.

[00:57:04] But yeah, people that stick with you, they'll stick with you forever and just bringing it back to our last episode, you know, the, you know, sell your own products.

[00:57:12] People get to know, like and trust you and them buying your product.

[00:57:17] It may be a hook up in some cases.

[00:57:19] Hey, I wrote this book.

[00:57:20] I'd love if you go check it out.

[00:57:22] That can kind of be a hook up, but it can also be well, they know if they've given me this much information for free.

[00:57:29] What am I going to get if I go buy this thing that I'm trying to actually, you know, improve my skill on.

[00:57:35] So it always comes down to you have to make sure that your offers are actually worth it to the customer.

[00:57:41] One of the things I always say is, you know, is it worth it to them?

[00:57:47] You know, your listeners, your viewers are trading something.

[00:57:51] They're trading their time and attention for the opportunity to consume your content.

[00:57:56] Is that trade worth it?

[00:57:59] And when it is, you'll find that they want more and that's where your own products and services can come in.

[00:58:05] I don't like to say that I have listeners.

[00:58:07] I like to say that I have a community because I get a lot of value from my community.

[00:58:13] It's not a one way street, whether people definitely give me money to do my show.

[00:58:18] But in reality, I get a lot of support.

[00:58:21] I get a lot of people who are helpful and they're like, Hey, you got this little thing wrong here.

[00:58:26] And I appreciate all of that.

[00:58:28] That is that's huge for me.

[00:58:31] For me, it's more important than money.

[00:58:34] But you have to lead by example.

[00:58:37] So one of the things that I like to do on my show to lead by example is I'll shout out.

[00:58:42] I've mentioned the tech John lots of times I mentioned SMR podcast because we're very similar in some of the stories that they discuss on SMR,

[00:58:50] which Rob's a part of I've mentioned the Daily Tech news show because they again, they touch on some of the topics.

[00:58:59] But the other day Chris Ashley, who is barbecue and tech SMR podcast, he has his own food truck now in Maryland.

[00:59:08] And I just I was like, you know what?

[00:59:09] We're going to give Chris a shout out and hopefully people in that part of the world on the East Coast,

[00:59:14] the US go and see him whether they do or they don't.

[00:59:17] People see me promoting other people's stuff, even even people in my in the community.

[00:59:23] And that makes to me, I think that makes a huge difference in the amount of love you get back because you're giving it like I don't have any reason to promote Chris's food truck other than I like him.

[00:59:37] He's a good dude.

[00:59:38] But if if you know somebody gets a chance they're going to go get good barbecue right?

[00:59:44] Yeah.

[00:59:45] There's no skin off my nose to promote that stuff, even shows that compete directly with mine.

[00:59:51] If I listen to something and I think it's really good, I'll promote it because ultimately if you're going to leave me for another show, you're going to do it anyway.

[00:59:59] And I'm not really worried about people leaving.

[01:00:01] I'm taking notes on all the things that we need to we should do a show on that.

[01:00:06] But yeah, you're absolutely right.

[01:00:08] People won't it is okay to recommend your competition.

[01:00:13] Because if your competition is doing it so much better than you that just because you wreck, you know, you not even recommend it.

[01:00:20] You just mentioned your competition.

[01:00:22] Well, your your listeners, your viewers, they decide, oh, well, they said this, I want to jet and I'm going to go over and it consumes something else.

[01:00:30] If that happens, then you weren't serving that person in the first place.

[01:00:33] That's that's not how that's supposed to work.

[01:00:35] So that might actually be a good thing.

[01:00:37] You know, you we should be willing to tell other people that hey, if they know if my content isn't for you, then go check this out.

[01:00:44] It might be a little bit more your speed.

[01:00:45] That's not competition.

[01:00:46] That is just you telling somebody about something else that they may enjoy once again building up that no like and trust.

[01:00:52] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:00:54] But I don't know if you've had any of Chris's food.

[01:00:59] That brother can cook.

[01:01:00] I have not.

[01:01:01] I asked him to send me something.

[01:01:03] He said he doesn't know how to ship it and make it affordable.

[01:01:06] He is he is absolutely learning how to start shipping stuff with dry ice.

[01:01:11] But Rod's, you know, so his partner on barbecue and tech and my partner on SMR podcast, his sister lives literally two miles from my house.

[01:01:21] So I see Rod fairly regularly when he comes into town to visit.

[01:01:25] So yeah, he'll be bringing me a couple pounds of brisket next time he comes.

[01:01:31] That's a good little benefit right there.

[01:01:33] Well, hey, I hope everybody enjoyed this.

[01:01:37] This is a little this little probably episodes probably a little longer than what we normally do for in between the post.

[01:01:43] I should say between the post episodes of Beyond The Post.

[01:01:47] But we did want to walk it through seven ways and these are the only seven ways or just seven ways that Bode and I actually utilize and can answer, you know, some fairly specific questions on.

[01:01:58] So we hope that it was that it was useful to you.

[01:02:02] And if anyone has any questions, you know, you reach out to us in our Patreon, reach out to us in our community.

[01:02:09] Be more than happy to answer.

[01:02:28] Thank you.