Balancing Profit and Integrity

[00:00:00] Grimm, I'm Rob Dunwood and I'm Bodie Grimm.

[00:00:32] In this episode of Beyond the Post, we dive into paid content versus sponsored content,

[00:00:37] the pros and cons of each.

[00:00:38] And if one or both may be right for you and your audience.

[00:00:42] So Bodie, it's been a second since we've actually recorded an episode.

[00:00:47] I'm excited because we have some things going on in the background.

[00:00:50] You want to tell the folks what we actually did today?

[00:00:54] When I say we, I really mean you because you're the one that was up two o'clock in

[00:00:56] the morning.

[00:00:57] No, sir.

[00:00:58] It was we.

[00:00:59] It was we.

[00:01:00] We actually officially launched the show.

[00:01:02] Now when you listen to this, dear audience, it's we have, we'll have launched the show

[00:01:07] for a couple of weeks.

[00:01:09] But yeah, this has been a long time coming all the way since October.

[00:01:15] And one of the things that we wanted to do is we wanted to have a video version, which

[00:01:19] is on YouTube beyond the post HQ, if you're interested in that.

[00:01:23] And we wanted to have a podcast, which you can just search beyond the post and

[00:01:26] you can find that on your podcatcher of choice.

[00:01:28] But yeah, I'm, I'm super stoked about this Rob.

[00:01:32] So yeah, I'm excited, man.

[00:01:33] I went and I listened to the show on a two X feed.

[00:01:38] I watched the show on like 1.7 speed and yeah, I am your editing was on a point because

[00:01:46] I know for me, I am verbose.

[00:01:48] I like to talk a lot.

[00:01:49] So you just imagine it with the editing, sir.

[00:01:52] So I'm just happy that our show is up and going.

[00:01:55] And I'm also happy about this topic that we're going to be talking about today

[00:01:59] because it's one that I think a lot of creators is always in the back of their

[00:02:05] mind. It may not be the first thing that they're thinking about, but

[00:02:07] I would say that more creators than not ultimately start thinking about how to

[00:02:11] make some money off of what I'm doing.

[00:02:14] So we're going to be talking about a couple of ways to do that today.

[00:02:16] I was approached a couple of weeks ago by two very different organizations.

[00:02:22] One organization wanted to pay me to promote their project.

[00:02:27] So they wanted to sponsor the show, but they had a lot of stipulations.

[00:02:33] They had a lot of ways that I could make my show better and they had.

[00:02:40] I felt like they wanted way too much control.

[00:02:43] And the other thing about this particular organization in the, you know,

[00:02:49] world of EVs crypto is, you know, it's just involved in the world of EVs.

[00:02:56] You got Elon, you got crypto bros.

[00:02:58] You got EVs. It's just the way it is.

[00:03:01] So the project that they wanted me to sell was in that realm,

[00:03:05] but I didn't feel comfortable selling that on my show because I don't talk about

[00:03:09] that stuff. I don't feel like it has anything to do with what I do or

[00:03:14] what I want to be involved with publicly.

[00:03:16] Now, the second organization is an organization that once I found out

[00:03:20] who they were and what they were doing, I believed in and they contact me

[00:03:24] and they said, Hey, would you talk about this on your show?

[00:03:27] We can even provide somebody for you to interview and we'll pay you.

[00:03:31] Now, I actually did do the interview with that group, but I did not take the money.

[00:03:36] And that is more of a paid content type situation.

[00:03:40] And if you read blogs, you might see paid content and then there's an article.

[00:03:45] That's what that is.

[00:03:46] These people wanted to pay me to talk about what they were up to,

[00:03:52] what they were doing.

[00:03:53] And I just thought that would be really interesting to bring to the audience, Rob.

[00:03:58] So what are your thoughts on that?

[00:04:00] It's a good conversation because, you know, all monetization is not the same monetization.

[00:04:06] So let's talk about the first one.

[00:04:09] I am not a fan of commercials, you know, on a show.

[00:04:16] When I say commercials, I'm not talking about commercials within the show.

[00:04:19] I'm talking about the entire show being a commercial.

[00:04:23] It kind of reminds me of, you know, for those folks who remember those things

[00:04:27] that the mail would actually deliver to your house and you would open them up.

[00:04:31] They weren't books.

[00:04:32] They were magazines and, you know, you had all kind of content that you would

[00:04:35] read in the magazine that we now read on the Internet.

[00:04:39] But we would often see, you know, in those magazines and we definitely see

[00:04:43] this in print magazines today because they're trying to figure out ways

[00:04:46] to monetize and make money because subscriptions are down so much as that

[00:04:50] there would be a section.

[00:04:50] It might be six, eight, 10 pages long.

[00:04:54] And that whole section is sponsored by some vendor or some company.

[00:05:00] And, you know, they fly out, tell you that it is sponsored content,

[00:05:04] but it literally is a commercial to where it's not even necessarily written

[00:05:07] by the editorial team at the magazine.

[00:05:11] It is written by the company that is paying for the content.

[00:05:14] And correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like that first opportunity

[00:05:18] that was presented to you was something like that.

[00:05:20] It was where the company contacted you and they wanted you to create a show

[00:05:25] on your platform for their message where they actually had editorial

[00:05:31] control over what you said, how you said it, and they would approve,

[00:05:35] you know, after the edit was done.

[00:05:37] That sounded about right?

[00:05:38] Well, it didn't go so far as that, but that's the feeling that I got from it.

[00:05:42] There was it was a very long email about how I can make my show better

[00:05:46] and make their content fit into what I'm doing.

[00:05:49] And I'm not interested in that, Rob, you know me well enough by now.

[00:05:53] I making money is not my top priority in the world.

[00:05:58] And if it was, I probably would have taken their money,

[00:06:01] but I think it would have lost a lot of audience trust.

[00:06:05] As I said, I am not one of those folks who will get in anyone's pocket.

[00:06:09] So I do understand that there are there's content out there

[00:06:12] that this is how they monetize this.

[00:06:14] This is how it works and they have an audience and the audience seems to care for

[00:06:18] it. I think that, you know, you both you and I kind of come from

[00:06:21] the same kind of background with the type of content that we're creating

[00:06:25] where a lot of it is just built on trust on what we're saying.

[00:06:28] And, you know, you feel as confident doing a show

[00:06:32] where you are talking about the ills of a product as you do talking about,

[00:06:37] oh, this is really great. And anytime that you there's a payment

[00:06:41] arrangement that changes that, it just makes you kind of feel,

[00:06:45] you know, a certain way about providing that kind of content.

[00:06:48] So on that type of paid content, I like I'm not saying that anyone

[00:06:53] shouldn't do it for me in a type of content that I create.

[00:06:56] I'm just not a terrible, terribly big fan of that type of content.

[00:07:02] Yeah. And I should say we're going to use two different terms

[00:07:04] and they're they could be used interchangeably in this in this instance.

[00:07:09] So the for my use case, I'm going to say that paid content was

[00:07:15] the organization that I like that wanted to pay me just to do that one show

[00:07:19] and talk about what they were doing.

[00:07:21] And then the sponsored content, I know that this is probably a distinction

[00:07:25] without a difference is the company that didn't want anything to do with

[00:07:29] just so that we don't confuse the audience because I know that

[00:07:33] when you and I have talked about this, Rob, I have used both terms interchangeably

[00:07:37] and I don't think I've done a very good job differentiating the two.

[00:07:42] But I don't want to give the names of the companies for a variety of different reasons.

[00:07:46] One is I don't wish ill on the on the one opportunity I didn't like.

[00:07:50] I hope that they succeed.

[00:07:52] I don't wish ill on anybody.

[00:07:53] That's just not a right fit for me in my show. Right.

[00:07:57] Yeah. In fact, these terms can be used so interchangeably.

[00:08:00] I'm going to go the other direction.

[00:08:01] I think that when someone says, I want to sponsor your content,

[00:08:05] they're just saying, hey, we like what you do.

[00:08:08] We would like you to give us a shout out at some point during your show

[00:08:11] and say that we sponsored it, but you have complete 100 percent

[00:08:14] editorial control and you talk about whatever you want to talk about.

[00:08:18] The agreement is that you will mention that this show or this series

[00:08:22] was sponsored by company XYZ.

[00:08:24] So I call that, you know, sponsorship.

[00:08:26] Once again, that is also paid content.

[00:08:28] As I said, these are as you said, these terms can be used very interchangeably

[00:08:34] as compared to the content that is paid for.

[00:08:38] But there's editorial control by the people who are paying for the content.

[00:08:42] You will notice and this happens a lot of times on YouTube videos,

[00:08:47] particularly for people who are reviewing things.

[00:08:50] They will actually say, hey, I'm reviewing this device.

[00:08:54] Such and such is such company actually sent me this device for review.

[00:08:59] However, the interview is mine.

[00:09:01] They have no editorial control whatsoever just because they want to make sure that

[00:09:05] hey, I might, you know, although I'm just I received this device

[00:09:09] to review it from the company, I may be about to lay in bed,

[00:09:12] you know, to lay in bastard.

[00:09:13] And this is still going to go up regardless of the fact

[00:09:15] that they actually sent it out for, you know, for me to try out

[00:09:19] or that they actually may have sponsored the, you know,

[00:09:21] the episode that their device actually is being, you know,

[00:09:25] you know, being presented in.

[00:09:26] So I, and it's like I said, some people are going to say, well,

[00:09:28] that's a distinction without a difference, as you said, Boatie.

[00:09:31] But I see a difference in those things as long as you're maintaining

[00:09:34] your editorial control.

[00:09:37] I don't really have an issue with that type of content that you,

[00:09:42] you know, that I think you're referring to as pay content,

[00:09:44] but content where, you know, a sponsor is they're paying you

[00:09:50] to mention them on the show.

[00:09:52] But the show is still editorially controlled by you 100 percent.

[00:09:56] Yeah, it really to me, it really just comes down to what level of editorial control

[00:10:01] do you have over content that someone else is paying you to present on your show?

[00:10:08] In this, as I said, if it is they are saying, here's what you need to say.

[00:10:13] Here's how we want you to say it.

[00:10:15] This is how it's going to run.

[00:10:17] Like I said, I'm not knocking that that makes sense for a lot of creators.

[00:10:21] I think for you and I is just not necessarily what you and I are interested in doing.

[00:10:27] I see a distinction between that and content where you

[00:10:32] is the content that you normally create.

[00:10:34] And there is just a sponsor who says that we like what you're doing.

[00:10:39] Can you say our name?

[00:10:40] Can you say can you say ACME Corporation?

[00:10:43] You know, sponsored this show.

[00:10:44] The show is still yours.

[00:10:46] Is what you normally do in your show.

[00:10:48] It is just sponsored by a company that is allowing you to monetize and make

[00:10:53] it make a few dollars on the creation and the effort to go into creating your content.

[00:10:58] Yeah, and that that's a really good point.

[00:11:00] Like and I will say to your example when someone on YouTube says,

[00:11:05] hey, I was sent this and they have no editorial control.

[00:11:09] I'm going to review it.

[00:11:10] I'm going to say what I want about it.

[00:11:11] And they've agreed to that.

[00:11:12] They send it to me for free.

[00:11:14] Or maybe they paid me to review it.

[00:11:15] But the review is mine.

[00:11:17] There have been times that I've seen on YouTube where a company sent somebody

[00:11:21] with a bunch of restrictions and that person pushed back and they push back

[00:11:26] to the point where they were able to talk to a vice president.

[00:11:29] The vice president is like, what are you talking about?

[00:11:30] This is fine.

[00:11:31] Say whatever you want to say.

[00:11:33] So like if you get into that situation where you want to review a product

[00:11:36] or you want to talk to somebody or you want to talk about something specific.

[00:11:39] And but the company doesn't want you to do that.

[00:11:42] You could simply say no, or you could push back to the point where

[00:11:45] you get the answer that you want.

[00:11:47] Or you just agree that both of the parties involved aren't going to

[00:11:52] come to an agreement and you move on.

[00:11:54] But if you really want to do that, a particular post or video or whatever,

[00:12:01] you don't have to agree to their terms immediately.

[00:12:03] You can push back and it's OK if they say no, it's OK if you say no.

[00:12:08] But if you push back, you might get what you want.

[00:12:11] The other thing is that follow your gut.

[00:12:16] If it makes you feel icky, it's probably that's something you want to do.

[00:12:21] It really comes down to like that.

[00:12:23] It's like, I don't know if I should do it.

[00:12:25] If you have consternation about, I don't know if I should be doing this.

[00:12:30] It doesn't feel right to you.

[00:12:31] You don't think it'll feel right to your audience.

[00:12:33] That's probably a sponsorship or a paid advertising

[00:12:38] opportunity that you don't want to actually partake in.

[00:12:43] So that's what I say, you know, and how does it feel to you?

[00:12:47] For me, I am big on I'm not changing the content of my show

[00:12:51] because you paid to have your name mentioned in the show.

[00:12:55] That is that is my Rubicon, so to speak.

[00:12:58] I'm not willing to go beyond that.

[00:13:00] As I said, that is not the case for everyone.

[00:13:02] And for some types of shows, that absolutely makes sense.

[00:13:05] You know, you know, Bodhi, one of the things that you you mentioned,

[00:13:09] you kind of glossed over, but I want to go back to it is that you said that

[00:13:12] in one of these cases, it wasn't just that they wanted you to do a show.

[00:13:16] They were willing to come on with you and actually have a conversation

[00:13:20] about the thing that they wanted covered on the show

[00:13:23] and actually pay you for the opportunity to appear in your show.

[00:13:26] And you said, well, yeah, I'd love to have you come on

[00:13:29] because this is absolutely content that my audience would, you know,

[00:13:31] would love to hear, but I'm not going to charge you for it

[00:13:34] because that just makes that makes the conversation a little bit different.

[00:13:37] So can you explain what made you go down that, you know, down that road

[00:13:41] as to bringing them on but not actually charging them for their episode appearance?

[00:13:46] So, Rob, you've been doing this for a very long time, much longer than I have.

[00:13:51] There are times when you think you're going to interview somebody

[00:13:54] and there's been several times across the the life of my podcast

[00:13:57] where I thought I was going to interview somebody and it was going to be

[00:13:59] a fantastic podcast and it was not.

[00:14:03] And in those in those moments, you have a couple of different choices.

[00:14:08] You can air the interview or you could not air the interview.

[00:14:12] It is completely up to you or you can air the interview with caveats

[00:14:15] at the beginning or at the end of the episode after the interviews complete.

[00:14:22] If I took money from these people and by the way, they were lovely.

[00:14:26] But if I took money from these folks and I did the interview

[00:14:30] and the interview was not what I wanted or it was a bait and switch or whatever,

[00:14:35] you name you name the problem.

[00:14:39] I would feel obligated to air that interview

[00:14:43] and on top of that, if by feeling obligated to air that interview,

[00:14:47] I would also feel obligated to let everybody know that I was paid to air

[00:14:50] that interview and I feel like that I would

[00:14:53] that would have a direct reflection on me and my credibility

[00:14:58] and my character in my audience's eyes.

[00:15:01] Like I don't even like using the word audience.

[00:15:02] I like using the word community because

[00:15:06] like the folks that are in the community for my other show, Kila Watt,

[00:15:10] they are people who help contribute to the show.

[00:15:13] Rob, you're on shows like this.

[00:15:15] They help contribute to the show.

[00:15:17] I see them as part of a community and not just as a passive audience.

[00:15:21] They're definitely people who are passive, but I have a very active audience.

[00:15:25] I have a small audience, but it's very active.

[00:15:27] So that relationship that I have with those folks in the community

[00:15:32] is really important to me.

[00:15:34] Like I rank it up there with the relationship

[00:15:37] that I have with friends and family because these folks didn't know me from anybody

[00:15:43] and they started listening to the show.

[00:15:46] They got invested in me and the show and what we talk about.

[00:15:50] And then they were able to contribute.

[00:15:52] And I'm always very good about giving credit when somebody does contribute,

[00:15:56] but they were able to contribute to the show and it kind of makes it a little bit

[00:15:59] in a weird way.

[00:16:01] Their show too, because they get to make the contributions.

[00:16:05] So if I took money from somebody and that show was awful,

[00:16:09] or they talked about stuff that I don't agree with,

[00:16:11] or they talked about stuff that I know my audience is going to revolt against.

[00:16:15] And I aired it anyway and I took that money and I cashed it cashed that check.

[00:16:20] That's going to hurt my credibility with my audience.

[00:16:22] And even though I don't make a lot of money on that podcast,

[00:16:26] that's it's not worth it to me to do that.

[00:16:28] That was a very long answer, Rob.

[00:16:30] You know what, Bodhi?

[00:16:31] I was thinking as you were saying, is that I know there's a section

[00:16:33] we want to actually talk about pros and cons, but I literally just think

[00:16:36] that you just illustrated a con of potentially taking money for an episode

[00:16:43] exquisitely. So I just kind of recap it.

[00:16:46] One of one of the cons could be that if you actually have someone pay you

[00:16:52] to make an episode appearance, there's more pressure for you

[00:16:56] to actually release that episode out into the ether when it may not meet

[00:17:01] your editorial standards.

[00:17:03] It may actually be something that you didn't think it was to where

[00:17:06] you thought you were actually interviewing someone and they came

[00:17:08] home with a very specific agenda and couldn't move off those points

[00:17:12] and it just turned out not to be great content.

[00:17:14] Well, you paid me for it.

[00:17:15] Do I still put it out or do we work something else?

[00:17:19] What is the contract?

[00:17:20] So I think that one of the cons could be just how you actually operate

[00:17:26] through a interview that you wouldn't ordinarily release.

[00:17:31] I guess that I've been doing this a while.

[00:17:34] It's rare.

[00:17:35] It is rare that I have recorded an interview and not put it out,

[00:17:39] but it has definitely happened because sometimes you just get folks

[00:17:42] on this, just not a good interview.

[00:17:44] Or as I said, that they thought they were doing an infomercial and

[00:17:48] every question that I asked somehow circled back to the thing specifically

[00:17:52] they wanted to talk about and not necessarily the questions that I was asking.

[00:17:55] So by not taking money, you can absolutely make sure that your

[00:18:00] conscience is clear by not putting out a piece of content that didn't live

[00:18:04] up to your editorial standards.

[00:18:07] Yeah.

[00:18:07] And I will say because if you're out there thinking folks, and I don't

[00:18:12] think this is what Rob was saying at all.

[00:18:14] Actually, I know this is the one he was saying, but if you're out there

[00:18:16] and you're interviewing somebody and they're not used to being on Mike

[00:18:19] and they're nervous and they're stuttering and they're stammering,

[00:18:22] but there are moments when they're pulling it together and giving you great

[00:18:25] content that's not a bad interview.

[00:18:27] That's just somebody who's not comfortable being on Mike.

[00:18:29] And that's okay.

[00:18:30] Like we need to be compassionate to those folks.

[00:18:33] But if you are like I had an interview just recently where some the person

[00:18:39] I was interviewing was like that.

[00:18:41] And to me, they kept apologizing.

[00:18:45] To me it was no problem at all because like I can take all that stuff out

[00:18:50] and I will make them look great.

[00:18:51] My job as the editor and the host of the show is to make my guests look great.

[00:18:56] I don't bring people on that I want to tear down.

[00:18:58] So those are no problems.

[00:19:00] So if you're out there thinking, oh, well, this is a bad interview

[00:19:03] because this person stammered and they used um too much and they took

[00:19:07] a long time to make a point, which is I'm guilty of.

[00:19:12] That's not a bad interview.

[00:19:14] It could be a bad interview, but if they've got nuggets in there,

[00:19:17] you just need to edit around that.

[00:19:19] Make your make your interviewee look good and more people will come

[00:19:23] and want to interview with you.

[00:19:25] I'm so glad that you actually made that point because you can use

[00:19:29] pieces of software like we're using right now, Riverside, that FM

[00:19:32] to do, to do a recording.

[00:19:34] And what are the cool things about the software is that it allows

[00:19:36] you to go in and remove your ums and your eyes and your

[00:19:39] stammers and so on and so forth.

[00:19:41] So that's one way to get around it, but you're absolutely right.

[00:19:44] I'm not talking about someone being nervous or someone doing their

[00:19:47] first interview.

[00:19:48] I am talking about those times when you think that you're interviewing

[00:19:53] someone and they had an absolute agenda.

[00:19:56] And this, this has happened to me.

[00:19:57] So I'm kind of remembering, you know, from personal experience,

[00:20:00] but I had someone come on the show where we thought we were going

[00:20:03] to talk about X, Y and Z and they wanted to talk about Roman

[00:20:05] numerals one and Roman numeral one only.

[00:20:08] And we literally couldn't move throughout the interview and talk

[00:20:12] about anything else because everything came back to the

[00:20:16] product that they ultimately were trying to sell.

[00:20:18] And one of the things that I am very adamant about when I bring

[00:20:22] some, you know, anyone onto my show, any show that I'm doing,

[00:20:27] the show is not necessarily for them to promote themselves

[00:20:30] to my audience.

[00:20:32] It's for them to deliver content that is going to benefit

[00:20:35] my audience.

[00:20:35] Sometimes both of those things can be the same thing,

[00:20:38] but when they aren't, you have to once again exercise your

[00:20:41] editorial, you know, you know, control over that episode.

[00:20:45] And if you can't steer it in the right direction, you may

[00:20:48] at the, you know, when you're in your edit just determine

[00:20:50] this is just not the type of content that I want to put out

[00:20:52] in front of my audience and not feel bad about not doing so.

[00:20:56] Yeah.

[00:20:57] So I had my first time I had this happen to me, Rob.

[00:21:03] I ended up putting out the interview because I thought it was

[00:21:09] good enough.

[00:21:09] And I did think there were moments in there that that were

[00:21:13] helpful to the audience, but whenever someone comes on my

[00:21:16] show, I always tell them that they'll have time to promote

[00:21:19] whatever they want to promote at the end.

[00:21:21] But they pitched me on a topic and the topic that I was

[00:21:25] pitched on was not what we got.

[00:21:27] Right.

[00:21:27] There was like, I would ask questions, he would answer it

[00:21:30] and then he would go back to these other things.

[00:21:32] Um, so that I was, I was so mad after that interview because we

[00:21:38] could have talked about great things.

[00:21:39] This person was the CEO of several companies that people

[00:21:42] have heard of.

[00:21:44] And, um, this, this would have been a, this would have

[00:21:48] been a slam dunk if they just could have like just had a

[00:21:54] conversation.

[00:21:55] But anyway, and then they would get to promote whatever

[00:21:57] they wanted.

[00:21:57] Uh, but, um, the next person that I had on when they emailed me,

[00:22:03] they're like the founder and CEO of this company wants to come

[00:22:05] on your show.

[00:22:05] And I was like, listen, I just had this experience if this

[00:22:09] person wants to come on and I'm just going to say his name,

[00:22:12] his name is Arcady from free wire technologies or DC charging

[00:22:16] company is like, if Arcady wants to come on, sauce enough.

[00:22:19] If he wants to come on, I'm happy to talk to him,

[00:22:21] but this has to be a conversation.

[00:22:23] I'm not going to like, we'll talk about your product,

[00:22:25] but this isn't going to be a commercial.

[00:22:28] And to Arcady's credit, he came, he comes on.

[00:22:30] I said, Arcady, hey, welcome to the show.

[00:22:32] We're not even interviewing yet.

[00:22:33] He goes, Hey, I understand you want this to be a conversation,

[00:22:35] not a commercial.

[00:22:36] I got you.

[00:22:37] No problem.

[00:22:38] And from that moment on for the rest of the interview,

[00:22:41] I was relaxed.

[00:22:42] He was relaxed and we had a great interview and it's one

[00:22:45] of my most downloaded and, uh, uh, a lot of folks who

[00:22:50] aren't into DC fast charging because it's a, that's a

[00:22:53] thing that only a few people really do.

[00:22:56] We're really interested and I got a lot of positive feedback

[00:22:59] because he was willing to come on and say, yeah, uh, we,

[00:23:03] we can just have this as a conversation.

[00:23:05] And honestly, I gave him way more time to talk about what

[00:23:08] he and his product and his business is doing than I would

[00:23:12] have normally just because of that.

[00:23:15] So buddy, I'm actually glad you had the opportunity to

[00:23:17] talk about paid sponsorships on your show and paid

[00:23:20] content on your show, uh, from two very different types

[00:23:23] of organizations, uh, with just two different, two

[00:23:26] different types of styles of content that, that you

[00:23:28] know, we're going to be created.

[00:23:30] So, you know, is there anything else that you want

[00:23:32] to add to that?

[00:23:33] Like, it seems, it seems like, you know, this is a

[00:23:35] way that a lot of shows can generate income for

[00:23:38] themselves, but I just think that you got to be

[00:23:40] careful with, you know, your editorial standards

[00:23:43] and making sure you're not crossing any lines

[00:23:44] when you do so.

[00:23:45] Yes.

[00:23:46] Yes.

[00:23:46] Uh, I don't really have anything else to add other

[00:23:48] than Rob.

[00:23:49] Uh, I don't know if you know this, but we have a

[00:23:51] Patreon, uh, and I'm not sure if our audience knows,

[00:23:55] but we're going to, we're going to dive a little bit

[00:23:57] deeper into both of these, uh, ways of making money.

[00:24:01] And we're going to talk about the pros and cons

[00:24:03] over in our Patreon, which is beyondthepost.fm

[00:24:07] forward slash Patreon.

[00:24:10] Absolutely.

[00:24:10] So go check us out over on our Patreon.

[00:24:14] So it's been a, it's been an excellent little

[00:24:16] quick show in between the post type episode for

[00:24:20] knocking out today and hope anyone, if you have any

[00:24:22] questions, uh, Patreon is a definitely an area where

[00:24:25] you can get ahold of us directly and have conversations.

[00:24:29] And once again, head over to beyondthepost.fm

[00:24:32] forward slash Patreon.

[00:24:33] That was P-A-T-R-E.