Getting Started

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[00:00:46] I'm heading over to Beyond The Post.fm for x-river side. Once again that's BeyondThePosed.fm for x-river side. So I'll just recap so so buddy you and I are having this conversation about how to get started.

[00:01:03] This isn't specific to getting started with a pie cast or getting started with a YouTube channel or getting started as an author. This is just how do you get started as a creator and let's just go with the assumption

[00:01:16] that you're a creator and you want someone other than yourself to consume and get something from the content you're creating. I was recently asked a very, very good question. The question was, I've been doing this for a long time. I started recording podcasts in 2006 and June of 2006.

[00:01:36] So we're decades into the game at this point. The person asked a question said that there's probably a lot of things that you don't even realize that you do because you've just done them so often they're just now unconsciously competent actions that you take and do every day.

[00:01:53] If you had to start over, if you were starting today but you had all the skill set, you have all the knowledge that you retain today but you did not have any of the resources as far as network websites, all those kind of things.

[00:02:07] Anybody else who's starting from scratch, it doesn't have. What would you do? So I thought that was an excellent question and I figured that you and I could kind of go back and forth with each other on the things that we would do if we were starting today.

[00:02:21] So, buddy, I'll post that question to you. You're starting the day. You have your skill set but you don't have your resources. What is the first day and you're going to do? You know, your journey to becoming a creator.

[00:02:37] Well, I put a lot of thought into this because we've approached the topic last night when we were chatting so I had a night to think about it and I had a lot of things that I came

[00:02:46] up with but really the ultimate thing was I wouldn't wait so long to start. I procrastinated for maybe a year and a half to start my current podcast, which is a podcast but electric vehicles called Kellewatt.

[00:02:59] That shows been going for almost seven years now and I waited so long to start it. Like I could have jumped in and been I was still one of the first electric vehicle podcasts out there but I could have been within the top the first 10 electric vehicle

[00:03:14] podcast out there at the time. But instead I was kind of just kind of paralyzed with a little bit of fear. I'm generally a shy person but also a little bit of imposter syndrome so it took me

[00:03:27] a really long time to get that show up and going and then it took me even longer to kind of figure out how to talk into a microphone. You know, my first let's say 30 episodes are pretty terrible and then they just get slightly less terrible after that.

[00:03:45] What are your thoughts, Rob? I'm on the same line about starting today, maybe for a bit of a different reason I make some line. One of the things and it doesn't matter if you are, if you want to write right,

[00:04:02] if you want a podcast record, if you want to create videos, shoot, if you want to be an editor at it, the things that you want to do, do them to get a level of

[00:04:14] competence at them and skill because here's the thing that I don't know that a lot of folks are going to tell you but this is the honest truth. Your first blog post is one of suck compared to your 50th.

[00:04:25] You're first podcast episode is going to suck compared to your 50th one even if you get to 50, you know, here's the thing, you know, you and I are, you know, I'm doing an air quote for folks who cannot see it right now but we are podcasters.

[00:04:38] 90% of podcasts don't make a past episode three. If you want to record a three episode, you can't possibly have developed a skill at doing podcasting unless you already recording some other podcasters.

[00:04:53] So for you and I, for what we're doing with being on the post, this is not our first rodeo. We've done other shows before, you know, multiple other shows before. So we're bringing a skill set to something new.

[00:05:06] But if you're starting off doing the, you know, you're creating it first YouTube video and you've never done it before, you're creating your first TikTok, you're creating your first Instagram, really, you're creating your first blog post, your first podcast,

[00:05:18] whatever the case is and you've never done it before. You've got to get the repetitions in. So I say the sooner you start, the sooner you can move away from it being the worst episode

[00:05:28] you've ever recorded because those are what those first episodes are going to be and there's simply no way to get around that. You know, what is our saying that what you do most is that which will do best?

[00:05:40] I think that's kind of a moniker that we have for this show and it comes down to, you know, if you want to write every day, write every day.

[00:05:46] If you, you know, if you want to get better at it right every day, if you want to get better behind a microphone, get behind the microphone and actually record every day, the more you do it, the more skill you're going to build.

[00:05:57] So if I were starting the day, thing number one would be just start, just start getting the reputation in and going from there. I think that we don't put enough emphasis on skill and mastery.

[00:06:13] And I'm not saying that every podcast or has to become an expert at mic technique before you ever record but you will be better at mic technique. If you actually have recorded something before your first episode, if you actually practice

[00:06:28] at it, you know, you'll figure a way to make it. I need to get a little bit closer. I need to be a little bit further away. I need to figure out how to breathe.

[00:06:34] So I'm not talking so long that I'm taking these big breaths in the middle and you hear that. Those are things that you learn simply by doing it in the same way that you'll of course suggest if you're learning how to shoot a basketball.

[00:06:45] If you're learning how to dribble a basketball, you will get better if you do it. So my big first thing is to start, but the reason you're starting is just so you can get away from the suck that you will have the first time you do anything. Yeah.

[00:07:01] And I will say this has been echoed by everyone we've interviewed to this point for the show is exactly what you just said is just do it. Go back, listen to yourself, watch yourself, re-read your work with a critical eye and

[00:07:16] don't be afraid to make changes that are maybe something that's really dear to you. Maybe you're like, man, I really love this part, but if it isn't working, change it. You might come up with something better, you might not.

[00:07:30] But if you keep it the way it is and it doesn't fit in your crammed it in with a crowbar, that's not going to work. It's going to feel like it's being crammed in with a crowbar.

[00:07:41] You've got to be able to go back and look at your work and have a critical eye as Roger Chang will say on a future podcast that you'll listen to if you continue to subscribe. And I agree with that 100%.

[00:07:55] So, buddy, we definitely have to give the folks more than just these ethereal things. Just start today because that sounds almost platitudinous. It will just start because once you start then you're not in the situation when you haven't started.

[00:08:09] When it comes to a real skill, when you think about a real thing that you do is like, you know what if I was going to start, if I was going to start whatever it is you're going to start today, here's thing number two that I would do.

[00:08:21] Yeah, thing number two I would do and we've kind of hit on a little bit as practice practice practice practice and be okay with posting things that are terrible. People are going to have opinions and if they email you their opinions, positive or negative, they're still listening.

[00:08:40] So they thought enough to to send an email. As you go further, you get a little bit more numb to those emails. I haven't got a lot of hate in the six, seven years that I've been doing my show.

[00:08:53] But, you know, people are going to email you and they're going to say things maybe they mean to be mean or maybe they mean to be constructive criticism, take it with a green assault and be willing to change. You're kind of making yourself vulnerable.

[00:09:11] Right now, one of the things I'm really bad at is I'm not looking at the camera because I don't like looking at the camera, it makes me feel uncomfortable. I have to go back and when I'm editing all these, I have to look at myself looking down,

[00:09:23] looking at my sheet of paper, overall off to the right, looking up into the left as Rob says, you know, recognize where your weaknesses are and then confront them and fix them or at least do

[00:09:36] your best. You know, some things you're not going to completely do away with. What about your Rob? So for any type of creator, second thing I want to do after I actually just start creating content

[00:09:51] and some are saying we'll probably say as a Rob, you probably should have thought about this first. I'm purposely putting the thing I want to say second is that you should absolutely just define who the content you're creating is for. Why they should listen to it?

[00:10:08] Why you're the one they should listen to and what they will get if they listen to you. So ultimately, who should listen, why should they listen, why should they listen to you and what

[00:10:18] they get from it if they do? When you can define those four things, I think that your opportunity to create content becomes much more clear. One of the questions I hear a lot is that

[00:10:32] I'm just trying to find my audience and if you're trying to find your audience, your audience isn't necessarily trying to find you it's like, you know, you have to, you kind of have to know

[00:10:41] what is you're talking to. You want to know at least in your mind's eye, this is the person that I'm talking to and I also say that that shouldn't be a group from a podcasting standpoint and

[00:10:53] from a reading standpoint, those are very, very personal things. People generally listen to a podcast alone or by themselves. People almost always read to themselves, not reading out loud to a group. So when you're writing something right to the person, don't write to the group.

[00:11:09] When you are recording a podcast, record to the person, don't record to the group. So my second thing that I would do is really, really hone in on who you're creating your content for.

[00:11:25] And part of that creation process has to even come down to are you creating a content for yourself? Is this an artistic outlet? Is this more of a thing like, you know, I really don't care if

[00:11:35] anybody reads what I write. I just want to write it because I wanted to get out of my head. I don't care if many people watch my podcast. I just wanted to get some thoughts of, you know,

[00:11:43] my own head out and put them down on on tape. So eventually I could go back and review it myself. If that's the case, understand that. But if you know that you are creating your content for an

[00:11:53] audience, you're creating a for someone else to consume, you really want to understand is like, why does your content matter? What you know, you've created something. What is it going to do

[00:12:03] through the person that's listening to it? If that is what your goal is, if you can define that, get very, very clear on that. I think it would be a good way to go.

[00:12:11] Yeah, I would agree with that. If I could just kind of build off of that, I completely agree. You need to define who your audience is, who you're building this podcast for. In this podcast, for example, we're building this podcast for creators and really the goal is

[00:12:30] to help create kind of a community around because community is key. That's another one of the things that we've talked about with the folks that we've interviewed for this show, if that will come against a little bit later. But you have to have people around you,

[00:12:46] whether that's a network of other creators or that your audience or that's just people that you can mentor and reach out to or extend me be mentored by and reach out to when you're having

[00:13:00] our time. I'll give an example. For me, I did not reach out to anybody for like probably four or five years before I felt comfortable enough to reach out to somebody. So I was

[00:13:15] doing my podcast for four or five years and I sent an email to Tom Merritt of the Daily Techno Show who we'll talk about. Talk about Daily Techno Show all the time on this show.

[00:13:26] But Tom very nicely emailed me back to say it sounds like you know a lot about EVs would be interested in coming on one day. I said absolutely that was not my goal but I reached out

[00:13:36] to him for a different reason. That was really cool of him to do. I was under show with Alice and Sheridan, Rod Simmons, your co-host on SMR podcast and how we're how we're doing. The connections

[00:13:47] I took away one, I made connections with folks at DTS. But I took away connections with Rob, Rod, Allison and Howard who I'm still in contact with currently. And through those connections

[00:14:02] I met Rob and you know like you can't you can't do this on your own even if you're single mic podcasts you have to have people that you can reach out to that you can bounce things off of

[00:14:13] that you can have maybe even come on your show and give a different perspective. But it's that you're just sitting in an echo chamber if you're by yourself when you have those other people

[00:14:23] who want to see you succeed they're going to help you out. They're going to give you that feedback that you need that you maybe you don't see yourself and then you can do the same and it just

[00:14:35] kind of builds that community bond even stronger. So, Booty, thing number three and you know we definitely want to get into some tactical things that folks could do but what is the third thing

[00:14:49] that you're thinking about when it comes to I'm getting started building this thing here is what I want to do at the beginning of that journey. What is the third thing you're doing

[00:14:59] it to be near that journey? You know, I don't want to put too much emphasis on tech but I had a ratty microphone. I did not have good equipment. I had a preamp that popped and hissed and

[00:15:16] was not a good option for my podcast. That's what I had but it was not a good option. Right now for like 79 bucks you can buy what is that microphone that we like the

[00:15:30] there are two the Samsung Q2 or Q2 you or the Audio Technica ATR 2100. They are both excellent. They sound really good. Yep and if you're doing anything and again this goes back to

[00:15:51] what we're going to talk about throughout the season is if you're doing anything your audio needs to be above reproach like if you if you have bad audio it's going to be really hard to watch

[00:16:03] and an extremely hard to listen to. Even with video audio is half of it. Half the experience is what you listen to. Some would argue that it's even more but you got to have I am the furthest thing from a microphone sound but there are differences in microphones

[00:16:26] and people telling you that you have artifacts in your sound or people telling you that I can hear everything. I can hear the cat scratching and I can hear the dogs outside barking.

[00:16:39] I hear cars going by. You can't get upset with that if you purchase the wrong type of microphone even if you've purchased the wrong type of microphone. Sometimes a reset I just had this

[00:16:49] conversation with someone a young woman recently. She just simply bought the wrong type of microphone. And she's trying to do all of these things to make that microphone this the wrong type of

[00:17:01] situation for her situation and the easiest thing to do is simply say you know what I missed it on this. I didn't do the research first now. I've done it. Let's go back out and buy the right type of

[00:17:12] microphone for my environment in the type of recording that I'm doing. Yeah and we could even go with let's because we're concentrating kind of on podcast e-mikes. But we could go with if you're

[00:17:25] creating a TikTok content for instance or YouTube content and you don't want to have a microphone in front of your face they make leveler mics that are USB mics. They're really good.

[00:17:35] Anchor makes a really good one. Road makes a good one. You know they're not cheap by any stretch of the imagination but your sound is going to be so much better like think about when you

[00:17:47] watch a YouTube video or you watch a TikTok or an Instagram and it sounds like somebody's inside of a cave there's so much echo. If just a little bit of treating your room with some sound

[00:18:00] dampening that is going to improve your overall video quality by a significant amount. And it's not I mean your content is really important if it's really important and important and compelling to the listener or the viewer they're going to listen to a certain

[00:18:17] extent but if you want to sound professional get yourself some good audio equipment and then also be in a room where the sound doesn't bounce off of every single wall try to minimize that

[00:18:31] as much as possible. I've actually got pillows stacked up right near me now you'll never see this pillow in the shot but I've got four pillows that are stacked up. You know because I have

[00:18:45] got 22 feet that way and it just becomes an echo chamber so just sitting like three pillows right off to my left on top of a table just blocks out a lot of echo. Now I've got sound dampening

[00:18:59] stuff like that on the wall but this was just the real cheap way to do it so just things like that you know soundscapes, sound design you can get lost in it but sometimes just put a blanket on

[00:19:10] floor if you've got hardwood floors, get some pillows that you know are near you to just keep the echoes and the sound bouncing back and forth it can make a role the difference in this

[00:19:22] interesting that you said that you know we kind of focus on podcasting. The young lady that was talking to about her microphone what she bought was she bought a little shotgun mic that plugs

[00:19:32] right into her iPhone and so she's taking this mic and then she's getting you know she's got a ring light set up she's got this little shotgun mic and then she's standing probably six feet away

[00:19:44] from her iPhone and it's still picking up everything so she's shooting videos is still picking up everything in the room because even though it technically is called a shotgun mic is not directional

[00:19:55] it's just a little cheap $30 mic that she bought you know for her phone and it's not getting her the results that she was wanting to get so she ended up buying one of these I want to say she

[00:20:05] spent maybe $100 bucks on it DJI is the name it's either Dity or DJI can't remember which one she ended up going with DJI has a single level their mic yeah so that's what she ended up going so

[00:20:17] it's a leveler mic that she can you know clip to her shirt you know or inside of her shirt or however she wants to set it up and then there actually is a receiver part that plugs into her iPhone

[00:20:30] and regardless of how far away from the camera she gets she sounds like she's talking right at the microphone because the microphone literally is right at her chest level so just little things

[00:20:40] like that make a world of difference because it is psychologically hard to listen to bad audio you watch things that are rainy but it is really hard to listen to things that are static ear echoey

[00:20:52] or you just don't have good sound and one more thing on the sound damp thing if you live in a small apartment or a smaller home or the room that you're recording in a small and it's used

[00:21:01] for multiple purposes and like man I don't want to put these ugly sound dampening panels on my walls they make some that look like artwork so you can do that as well you could put a carpet down

[00:21:15] you could do this you know and still make your keep your living space nice and not look like you know I don't know if I look like I'm in a cave but this is definitely more black than

[00:21:28] then what's in the rest of my house? Well and you've got nice ones. I have the cheap phone panels that might have been I think you get like a 12 pack for 15 bucks or something like that.

[00:21:42] And they look horrible so what did I do or when I say I want to say I am I'm talking about my daughter because my daughters do want to you know put the nice lights behind me and this and

[00:21:51] that and the other. But she's like that you just can't have those crappy look and panels up on the wall so she went to five below and she bought five dollars worth of whites at five below and it

[00:22:00] makes those panels look look way better so you know the things we're talking about now have a cost but I am not one of those folks who will tell you that you can do everything for free.

[00:22:13] There are a lot of things that you can do for free. But you're never going to hear me say just get started if you want to record a podcast for quarter-run your microphone with no or

[00:22:22] your microphone recorded on your phone with no third party microphone you never want to hear me say that because every podcast or that does that sounds like a podcast or that does that and you

[00:22:32] never listen to them you don't take them seriously because they truly sound terrible compared to somebody who may have spent twenty-three dollars on an actual microphone. So you know when it

[00:22:43] comes to oh wow I've got really sweet I'm in a really square room with hard angles on everything and I just get a lot of echo in here you may need to go to you know the store and buy some

[00:22:57] throw pillows and just throw some pillows around but you know put you know pillows on your couch pillows on the floor just wherever you're getting that echo from some of those things you need to

[00:23:05] do and yes there's an associated cost with that but you know I don't want to make an assumption body but I want to imagine a lot of folks that are listening to us they are looking to do this

[00:23:16] creator thing for profit at some point. So if you're trying to make money off of it these little things make a world of difference because you just will sound better as I said I am not a microphone

[00:23:31] snob but there are two basic types of microphones one is called a condenser mic and this is what most people got them get a mic this is probably what they end up getting but those mic are

[00:23:42] designed to pick literally everything up you know you can hear a pin drop that's not the kind of microphone you want if you're doing a podcast you do not like my my foreignist is running right now

[00:23:55] I doubt that you hear it and that's the goal you that I don't want you to hear the foreignist running I want you to hear just my voice but if I were on a condenser mic you would hear my

[00:24:03] foreignist running right now why because my foreignist is on the wall behind me and it's quite noisy so there are things you can do with technology to just make your job easier as a content creator

[00:24:16] and good microphone is one of the things that has to be expensive just the right type of microphone for your environment. All right Rob so we've talked about you know getting started from the very beginning

[00:24:27] we've talked about community we've talked about upgrading our tech next question and there's there's two schools of thought on this that's there seems like anyway is to edit or not to edit

[00:24:40] what are your thoughts yes I'm saying yes to both so it ultimately is going to the pin in my opinion on the type of content you're creating if you are writing you have to edit that

[00:24:55] if you know because people aren't want to read a bunch of broken language since it doesn't make sense you absolutely need to go through and edit your copy before you send it out if you are creating highly produced YouTube videos then you need to edit that because

[00:25:13] that's where the word highly produced comes from. If you're shooting a live screen do you need to edit your live stream maybe not the reason for that is because it was a live

[00:25:25] stream to begin with so the audience actually got the content as the content was being created they've already seen it in many cases so do you need to spend enormous amounts of time doing it

[00:25:36] edit on something that actually has already gone out live but you know the debate is out on that I lean towards I don't really do a lot of edit on things that were already streamed live

[00:25:47] simply because people have already seen it however there may be some editing that I do and is very very small amount if there was a mistake you may be able to clean the mistake up

[00:25:57] you can cut out long awkward pauses someone had a sneezing attack you can get rid of those kind of things even though it actually happened in the live show but when it comes to I want to take

[00:26:08] this piece and put it here I want to edit this piece out I don't really think that's necessary if your content was streamed live to begin with and then you get into your highly produced

[00:26:21] podcast then clearly that as the name implies you're going to be spending amount of time editing I will say this one editing though a lot of people will say well I recorded 20 minutes of video

[00:26:34] an audio and I spent you know 100 minutes actually doing yet I think I think you need to find a good a good ratio I don't know that one the five is it I have seen people spend enormous amounts of

[00:26:53] time editing content that the edit didn't make much difference for the consumer of it so that time could have been much better allocated to you spent you know you spent 10 hours editing a two-hour

[00:27:06] video but you only spent an hour promoting the you know the two-hour video so no one actually saw what you'd so was the edit worth it well from our decision point maybe but the fact if

[00:27:19] if the goal was for people to see it well you didn't have time to actually promote it before the video came out so no one actually saw it so I think you know from an editing standpoint I try to

[00:27:29] find a happy balance you know I personally have shows that take me you know it's not even one you know if I record for you know if I record for an hour it only takes me 20 minutes to do the

[00:27:43] edit but I have content that the show mail may only be six or seven minutes long but it may have taken me three hours to produce so you know it's a it's a it's a range and I just really think of

[00:27:54] depends on what ultimately the finished product is going to be and how people are consuming the finished product yeah I agree with everything you just said I have I have two ways that I edit personally

[00:28:08] when I'm recording my solo show I edit while I'm doing it I will if I mess up a line I will stop I will cut that line I will start over again or if it doesn't sound right I'll take out a whole

[00:28:20] section and I'll re-record it and then I don't have to edit it the end because I've already edited everything that's one way edit and that's actually a much faster way most of the time

[00:28:30] than going through and listening and cutting things out and maybe gotta add something back in the other way I edit is normally for like interviews sometimes I'm interviewing my friends or sometimes I'm interviewing somebody who is very verbose and they just go off on tangents

[00:28:48] that have nothing to do with the topic if I think those those tangents are beneficial to the interview I'll leave the man or I'll leave some of it in but if I don't think they're beneficial

[00:28:58] to the interview at all I'll definitely take those out even if they're interesting simply because they might be just be interesting to me and I might lose a section of the audience because we were talking about Stanley Cups and now we're talking about you know

[00:29:19] microphones or whatever we're off topic and sometimes off topics good sometimes it's not or sometimes you go to inside baseball especially if you know somebody and somebody's bringing up a private joke to make you laugh the audience doesn't understand the private joke and leave it

[00:29:35] it in is beneficial to no one except for the two people that were on the call or however many people were in the interview so the best thing to do in that case in my opinion is the cut that stuff out

[00:29:46] now in terms of like what you were saying if you get a bunch of really polished presenters and they know their stuff even if they've not worked together all of that goes together fall

[00:30:00] fall asleep but if you're starting out and you have people in the first let's say the say of a three person podcast and everybody's just trying to feel each other out even though they know

[00:30:10] each other they're trying to feel things out it might be okay to go back and you know hack that apart a little bit the first 15 minutes until everybody starts to feel comfortable because your

[00:30:20] the awkwardness that is going on or whatever's happening in that situation is going to come through and maybe that comes through as genuine often it comes through as being unprofessional and hard to

[00:30:32] listen to yeah so in this goes back to one of the things I was saying at the beginning of we're talking that you have to actually allow yourself time to grow because even if you have three

[00:30:43] people with mimpi casting for years if they haven't actually recorded a show with each other and it's just a very very conversational type show it takes time for them to get used to each other

[00:30:54] so you know so it may not take 100 episodes but it might take six or seven episodes for them to actually understand the other people's timing to understand when you're supposed to come in when you know how you're going to interrupt somebody this someone may actually be pausing

[00:31:09] not because you needed to interrupt just they just have a thought process toward a pause for you know 2.6 seconds and something was going to come glorious after it and you now know that

[00:31:20] wait a minute don't let me interrupt them think they're thought through and actually say it so that's just a timing thing and getting used to who you are reporting with um you are the editor out of

[00:31:33] the two of us I edit because editing is necessary I think you actually enjoy you know I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think there's actually part of the edit that you actually

[00:31:42] enjoy I have come to understand that is not a thing that I enjoy so I tend to gravitate towards the type of shows that don't necessarily need as much editing and it also one of the things I try to

[00:31:56] do is plan on the front end of it you know and I think even as an editor you would probably agree with this body is that the best way to edit is to make sure you don't slip up in the beginning

[00:32:08] of the you know in the actual content of the show so if you can do things in your run down that make editing easier do things and you're running out of make editing easier um you know

[00:32:19] you hear all the time people say oh I'll just get that in post I'll just get that in post sometimes that needs to be said but if you're saying that every every transition that is a lot of work for

[00:32:29] the editor and if it's not something you're doing yourself you know ultimately the more things you need to be edited the more your editor's going to charge you so I try to get into habit

[00:32:39] of producing the show on a front end and it run down that we kind of of take in the time to go over what we're going to talk about so that you don't have to go and make an enormous amount

[00:32:51] of edits on the back end yeah 100% that's not going to get that is a personal preference that is just because I am not someone that likes to spin tons of time in Ableton or Adobe Premiere

[00:33:04] or Da Vinci Resolve or whatever the case is yeah I can say from experience if you just get a group of people together you and a friend and you talk without a plan or an outline or anything

[00:33:19] if you just get together and you chat and then you want to go back and edit that mess later good because when you take out a certain section because we're like oh well maybe we shouldn't have said

[00:33:28] that because we're talking about somebody else and that might hurt their feelings well later there might be a call back to that same thing and if you didn't cut that second thing out

[00:33:39] people are going to know what you're talking about you know like there is a there's a whole art to this and especially people and this might be something we want to touch on a little bit

[00:33:48] and then in our Patreon section rub but how long should your podcast be your podcast doesn't need to be three hours long that is a really long time for to ask somebody other time if

[00:34:01] you're Joe Rogan three hours long is fine if you're just starting out set your site's more realistic no longer than it needs to be not a second it needs to be as long as it needs to be but not

[00:34:13] a second longer that is that is the answer that I give everyone because we cannot tell you how long your show should be because we don't know what your content is we don't know what message you're

[00:34:25] trying to deliver we don't know how you're trying to convey the message to your listeners that's something that you're going to ultimately have to figure out and you will find a sweet spot

[00:34:33] to where a show that was only 37 minutes felt like it was a little too short a show that was 58 minutes felt like it was too long so you you know that your sweet spot is probably somewhere in

[00:34:43] a 43 to 47 minute range but it takes time it takes practice it takes effort to actually figure that out and you'll kind of get to you know I'm doing air quotes for folks who are listening right now

[00:34:55] it just feels right it feels like it was the right amount of time and I know that at a very very subjective but it is a thing you know the things that we're doing as far as creating this content

[00:35:05] there is an art form it is an art form there there's an artistic component to it and how do you know when you know the painting is done because you know that the painting is

[00:35:16] done you know no one can tell you that it's just it feels right you it felt like I need no more strokes on this and you're going to find that that's going to be the same case when the

[00:35:25] come to podcasting when it comes to YouTube when it comes to tick-tocking when it comes to Instagram me you know what what feels right is what feels right and it is it's a very subjective thing

[00:35:36] so I will always stick with your content needs to be no longer than it should be but it needs to be as long as it should be yep if you're repeating talking points that you've already beat to death

[00:35:49] that that's time to either move on to a new topic or in the show is as my general feeling on then I am a big tell him then tell him which you want to tell him then tell him which you told him

[00:36:03] but if you get into around four around five miles six you probably need to trim that down a little bit you don't you don't you don't need to say the same thing more than three times in an episode

[00:36:14] so wrap I'm going to ask you to do me a favor and break that down for the audience because we've talked about this so many times but tell him tell him what you're going to tell him

[00:36:26] and then tell him much to tell them what is that what does that mean to you so this is this comes back from an old journalism class I had in high school where our you know our

[00:36:39] instructor English teacher journalist teacher whatever we want to call call her you know one of things she would say is that when you are creating copy and you you wanted to be compelling and this

[00:36:51] is not a hard-fashioned it was just a rule that worked for me throughout my career is that you tell someone what you're about to tell them then you tell them the thing that you just told

[00:37:03] them that you were going to tell them and then you reiterate the thing that you just said that you just told them so it's tell them which you're going to tell them then you tell them

[00:37:12] then you tell them again what you told them and generally when you hear that thing for the third time that's where you're going to get residents when you just say something wants someone

[00:37:23] will hear it but they may forget it but if you said something three times well they said this three times they must have really meant that and they don't even perceive necessarily that you said

[00:37:31] a three times because you don't want to just say hey you should really tie your shoes tying your shoes is really good everybody should tie this she's I'm not saying that this should be that basic

[00:37:40] but you want to ultimately let folks know what you're about to do then you do the thing that you're about to do then you kind of wrap up with what you've just done for them and that's tell them what you're

[00:37:52] going to tell them tell them then tell them what you told them yeah you know what I think because I have I want to go on to this further but I think this might merit its own show this is topic right

[00:38:04] here because there's a there are variety different ways and techniques to do that in the different mediums that people might be wanting to experiment with so let's let's stop here and

[00:38:19] can tell people what we might be talking about or what we will be talking about in our extended show so yeah so we're going to do a little bit of an extended show this is an experiment that

[00:38:31] body and iron running the where we don't want to make these podcasts be too long but we want to keep our conversations going so we're going to put some stuff behind our patreon and pay wall

[00:38:39] and believe in today's you know after show for a lack of a better word we're going to be talking about you know a few topics one of them is just audience growth and how body and I both

[00:38:53] feel about growing audiences and how growing those audiences can actually be done effectively because ultimately as I said it may not be your motivation but I would imagine the most people are

[00:39:03] listening to us talk today their motivation is to actually put this content in front of an audience and that audience is going to respond and react to that content in some form of fashion so if

[00:39:13] that is what you are interested in you definitely want to check us out in our pay wall content that we're going to be throwing up here so folks we want to thank you for checking us out and

[00:39:23] one of these between you know what that's that's body I'm just having a thought right now between the post between the post two that's we've got beyond the post these are going to be

[00:39:34] between the post and leave this in this this is cognitive people need to hear so this is this is body and rob building a podcast in real time so these episodes we are going to title

[00:39:48] between the post that's great so for folks who have been listening you know for regular lessons of beyond the post this was a between the post episode with this body and rob where we are talking about all things getting started so that's something you're interested in

[00:40:06] checking this out and if you just listen to it we appreciate you for hanging out with us for the last half of.