How to Build a Thriving Creator Community

[00:00:00] So Robb, last week we had on Corey Gumbs and we talked about the importance of community and almost like, I don't know, fate isn't the right word, you know, it's, it's, uh, kismet isn't the right word, but, uh, communities on, or should be on every creator's mind.

[00:00:19] And Angela Halliwell, who is the first person we had on our show, she sent out a LinkedIn post that says, sometimes we conflate community building with posting on social media. Posting on social media just helps you find people to talk to you. Community happens in the comments, the DMs, the email inboxes, phone calls, virtual meetings and in real life interactions. Don't stop posting, but make an effort to get out there and talk to people.

[00:00:53] It's a great post. And to just exacerbate my inability to go in order, I want to jump to the end. Okay. Just because you just said that, cause I actually, you know, you know, Bodie, we're, we're doing a podcast. We tried to make it be all professional and have a rundown of questions and, and, and topics and, you know, bullet points that we wanted to talk about in order. And let's just go to the last one. So I said, what are the benefits of building a community?

[00:01:19] And the reason that I want to jump there is because it's the relationships. And that's exactly what I think that Angela Hallowell was talking about. It's not just getting on and posting to people who follow you. It's the relationships to come out of that. So it's the conversation, the discourse going back and forth, checking on people, seeing how folks are asking if someone needs help, letting folks know you need help in receiving it. And that's all part of the community, the relationships. Absolutely.

[00:01:48] And, you know, to that end in my communities that I've built, if I haven't heard from somebody in a while, I'll just reach out and be like, Hey, how you doing? You know, uh, it, it means the, I don't know if it means the world to somebody who's listening to your show, but it means a lot to them to hear that you care and you remember who they are. Um, just this morning I had an interview while I didn't have the interview this morning and interview like a year ago with a guy.

[00:02:15] And, uh, he reached out to me and he's like, Hey man, um, just want to say happy Thanksgiving. And do you have any mic recommendations? And I was like, absolutely. Like, this is a cool dude. We, we enjoyed chatting with each other, but I haven't talked to him in over a year. And I gave him three mic recommendations based on what he was looking for. Um, you know, that person I didn't ever think I would hear from again. I'm going to consider that guy. His name is Dave in my community now. Yeah.

[00:02:42] And, you know, a big part of it is just touching in with people when you don't want or expect anything from them. Yeah. Um, a lot of times and, you know, a lot of people think they're building a community, but what they are building is just people who will do stuff for them. And, and that's not a community. It's like, I, you know, I'm posting this stuff because I want to grow my followers. I'm posting this stuff because I want people to follow me.

[00:03:09] I want, you know, I want, I want, I, I, I, I is the word there. And that's not, that's not community. It's, it's part of it, but it's, it's, it's not in its, you know, in its entirety, in its totality. A big part of community is literally just conversing with people, having conversations, checking up to see how someone's doing. You, you know, you, you never know. You may say, Hey, haven't heard from you in a while. How are things going?

[00:03:36] And that might brighten up someone's day that, that is, you know, like I said, I don't, I am not one, you know, one of those persons is like all into feelings and this and that and the other. So, so, you know, I know that there's a lot of folks like me, but it does mean something when someone you haven't heard from in a while, they just reach out and just say, Hey, how's it going? They didn't necessarily want anything other than to know how you were doing. And it's good to hear from you. Haven't heard from me in a while.

[00:04:02] And then you might go another three, four, five, six, seven, eight months before you, you know, you have that conversation again, but you know that there's somebody out there who thinks about you in times other than when they want something from you. Yeah. And Rob, that, that I'm going to, I'm going to steal your fire here, but that takes us right into the, the first topic that you created for our show today, which is as a creator, when should you start to care about your community?

[00:04:28] And I wrote that very specifically, when should you start to care? And I was thinking about this and I was actually having a conversation with someone who was like, so, you know, I, I know that I want to eventually have a community. And they were running all, running off all these things that they are thinking about what a community is to them. But the question is like, but when should I focus on building that? When should I care?

[00:04:58] Do I need to get like a hundred followers? Do I have to have a thousand followers? What do I need? And this for actual subscribers, this was someone who's building a YouTube channel. When should I start to care about that community? And, you know, when I thought about it, I was like, now's the time you haven't even started a YouTube channel yet.

[00:05:16] Now is the time to start thinking about the community because, and I think you and I have both stumbled upon this, that oftentimes the people who are there with you from the very beginning are the strongest members. They are the pillars of your community. They're, they're the ones who become the moderators. They're the ones who are asking, you know, who asked the first question beyond you asking them questions.

[00:05:39] So I think that as a creator, and it doesn't matter if you're doing YouTube, if you're doing a, you know, if you're, if you're, you know, writing a newsletter, if you're, you know, if you're podcasting like we do, I think that you want to think about your community. At the onset of creating whatever piece of content delivery system that you're creating.

[00:06:00] Community can be as few as two, you know, in my, in Kilowatt, the very first person who signed up, his name is James. And the next person to sign up, his name is Mark. Both of those folks are still a part of that community and they're still very engaged in that community.

[00:06:19] Uh, but for a long time, our community was a total of three and in the, you know, that has grown significantly over the years. But three was a, was a perfectly fine community back when it was three. Like I I'm, I'm happy that all the other people are part of the Kilowatt community for sure. Especially the, the paid community. But, um, I was having good conversations with three, two other people.

[00:06:49] And, um, so don't, don't set your sights so much on how big your community needs to be. Uh, as long as you're having good conversations and everybody's helping each other out, uh, you have, you have a solid community. These are things that I think about absolutely now. And it's funny. I get asked a lot of questions, Bodie about, well, if you were starting over, what would you do differently? And that's a trap question because I started podcasting 18 and a half years ago. I started blogging in the nineties.

[00:07:19] So I've been doing this type of stuff for a very, very long time. So what would I do differently? Literally everything, because it's a, it's a different world now than back when I got started. But one of the things that I do come back on, because I did not think about community. I don't even know if I, you know, for the first several years of creating content, if community was even a word, it was just, I have these things to say, I want to put them in a blog.

[00:07:45] I'm going to put them on a podcast and then release them into the world and hope you, hope you people will listen or read the things that I've said. But I do think about community now. So much so that if I were consulting someone specifically on building a podcast and, you know, one of the questions I get, well, how do you find the first people who are going to listen, you know, to your show or who are going to watch your show?

[00:08:11] Because I'm not one of those folks that, you know, I don't really believe in the field of dreams method for, you know, and I know I'm aging myself with that. A lot of people who might be listening haven't seen the movie field of dreams, but it's an excellent movie starring Kevin Costner. And there's a point in the movie where there is, you know, I know, you know, I'm going to go with this body, but is if you build it, he will come. Most people think it is. They will come, but it's actually he, if you build it, he will come.

[00:08:37] And I say that, you know, I'm not a field of dreams type of creator because I don't think that just because you built something, unless you are already famous or infamous, the people are just going to find it because of you and then partake in it. And, you know, you get tons of followers, tons of clients and everything off of it. I think that you need to do more.

[00:08:59] So from a community standpoint, now, as I am building out these podcasts, building out these YouTube channels, building out these email newsletters, I'm thinking about community from the very onset of, you know, so much so to where, like, I think that I'm almost at a point to where I would say that it makes sense that if you were even thinking about building a podcast, you probably want to start a community.

[00:09:26] Before you even record your first episode, because you can build up anticipation for the thing that is coming. If you are having conversations about the thing you're going to podcast about with people, if you're doing that on social media, if you're doing that in person, you can get someone excited about something that's coming and say, hey, you know, I'm thinking about launching this podcast. Here's what it's going to be about. These are kind of conversations we're going to have.

[00:09:49] And you can literally inside of a community start having those conversations and get people potentially excited about the thing you're creating. So when you launch, you're not launching to no one and then hoping people find it and become your community. You're launching to the community you've already fostered and just talking about the thing that you're trying to get off the ground.

[00:10:08] So if I were to say, like, you know, I want to launch to have at least 100 people potentially that will listen to my thing or watch my thing or read my thing or whatever the case is, I would start working on that at the very beginning. Just because it's easier to do before you have the content created, because the community almost in a way can dictate what the content will be. They'll tell you what they want and then you can go create based off of that. Yeah.

[00:10:39] Yeah. And if you're like, well, I don't know where to find these folks, you know, get involved. Like Rob said, get involved in the conversations on Twitter. You don't have to follow anybody, but interact with them. And they're going to look at your profile if you said something smart and interesting or funny or whatever, whatever sparks their interest. But I and I don't do this. Don't do a very good job in this.

[00:11:02] Um, but there are plenty of events in your area surrounding the topic that you want to discuss on your podcast. You know, unless it's you, then that's a little bit of a different story. But for let's just say we'll use this podcast. For example, there is a Phoenix Podcasters Association. They have meetings every month. I think it's the first Thursday of every month. I've been to a few of them. I've met some really nice people.

[00:11:29] Um, there are places that you can go to to find that community and tell them about what you're working on. For a kilowatt, there's a Tesla meetup. That's pretty, pretty regular once a month. And they get together at a mall parking lot or whatever. And they all set up and they hang out and they talk. And it's not just limited to Teslas. It can be all sorts of different electric vehicles. Or you can just go there and learn. Uh, so this is these, this is where you go to find your community.

[00:11:59] This is how you build that group. And then reach out to other people who've been doing this longer than you and ask for advice. Right. I think one of the things that, uh, you know, people have to think about and understand when it comes to community, community doesn't necessarily mean your community. It doesn't mean that you've built this thing and it's only people who are associated with you. Community can mean like, do you guys have Quaker steak and loops?

[00:12:28] Um, you know where you're at? Mm-hmm. So for us in the summertime, every Wednesday, there's about a thousand people who will pull up in classic cars every single Wednesday. Uh, you know, you know, at this Quaker steak and lube, um, the parking lot is giant. The parking lot is way bigger than the restaurant could ever use. And the reason for that is because there's so many things that are happening in the parking lot that actually are not happening inside of the restaurant. People will go on to get wings and get beer and this, that, and the other, but they are literally hanging out in the parking lot.

[00:12:57] Well, that didn't start by a thousand people just randomly showed up at the same place and they said, Oh, this is, this is kind of cool. We should, you know, keep doing this. It probably started off, like you said, Bowie, two or three. And then someone, Oh, you guys, uh, you guys, you know, is this like a thing? You guys all, you know, meet your Corvette. I've got like a, you know, a 74 Stingray. Um, you know, when are you guys going to be here next? That's how community starts. They start off small and then they get big and you eventually get to where you, you've got, you know, hundreds of people in a parking lot.

[00:13:27] Every Wednesday night, um, you know, during the summer months. So, you know, you absolutely can go where people are talking about the thing that you have a little bit of expertise in. We say this on this show fairly regularly that, that, um, repetition builds reputation. So even if it is on social media, um, as Angela said, don't just go to social media to just post and think that that's, that's going to be the thing. Actually contribute, answer questions.

[00:13:55] Um, you know, answer, you know, answer questions, um, you know, in areas where you have expertise. If you continually keep showing up in places where people who have interest in things that you have interest in, and they show up in the, in these places regularly, and you continually show that you have maybe a little bit more knowledge than the, than the average Joe in one of these places. You know, that, you know, your reputation will be, oh, this person has the answers to questions. And here's how things kind of work.

[00:14:22] People tend to believe that when you. Know the answer to like, if somebody, if somebody asks a question in a group or in a, you know, on social media and you answer it, and then you come back and ask another question related to the same thing. And you answer that. And then they answer, you know, they ask a third question and you answer that after you've answered about three questions to one person, they seem to, they will just automatically think that you now know everything about everything that they have to ask about that thing.

[00:14:50] That may not be true, but they think that you're building a reputation of this person knows about this thing. So, um, you know, just go to where people are hanging out and have conversations. And that's literally how, you know, how a community can grow. You're already part of one, but maybe there's something that, you know, you're focusing on a particular area in this larger community. And you kind of, I don't want to say break off because I'm not saying go to someone else's community to steal people from it. I'm not saying that at all.

[00:15:16] I'm just saying that you may find that when you're in a very large place, like on social media or in a Facebook group or something like that, that you may find that, you know, just by being helpful and answering questions about things you have expertise about. And that's how you can get people to you to where they now want to hang out with you and get more of your, you know, more knowledge and share knowledge with you. And, you know, you show them some things, they show you some things. And that's ultimately how community builds.

[00:15:42] So then that leads us, Rob, to the next phase, which is once you got a couple folks in your community, how are you going to foster that? How do we keep people engaged in that community? This is, to me, one of the harder parts of getting a community off of the ground. Someone generally or usually is the leader of that community.

[00:16:10] And if it's something that is associated with your content, something that you've created, people are going to look to you to kind of get that fostered. So what kind of things are you going to foster? You want to ask people questions. You want to make sure that you're asking people questions. You're answering people's questions. You're being very receptive to them. There is going to be a lot of work on the part of the community moderator at the beginning, just because people are going to lurk at first and they want to see, is anyone asking questions?

[00:16:40] Is anyone answering questions? So you want to facilitate conversation between people as much as possible. So it's going to start with you. You're going to have to actually ask questions. You're going to have to go and answer questions. Once you do that, you will then be able to, you know, kind of get to know people and know what people, you know, you know, you'll get to know what other people potentially would have to offer a particular community.

[00:17:07] So now, as you know, your community starts to grow, things you can do is, well, you don't answer all the questions. Someone can ask a question, you know, based off of a conversation with someone else in the community, they have the answer. You don't answer the question. You actually, you know, tag the person that you know has the answer and then prompt them to answer. So now you have community members talking amongst themselves as compared to you being the single point of contact.

[00:17:37] It's hard in the beginning. You are going to be that for the, you know, for the very beginning of your community because that's, you know, people are going to lurk and they only know you. But over time, if you can, you can foster that community. You can help it grow if you're able to link people to each other so that they're talking amongst themselves as compared to only going to the moderator or the owner of the group, the owner of the community.

[00:18:01] If you're effective in whatever your content creating, whether you're doing a social media post or, you know, short form videos type stuff, you're doing long form on YouTube, whatever you're doing and whatever your subject is, your audience has joined your community because they already see you as an expert. If you recognize people in your community, like Rob is saying, this person knows exactly what the answer is, even if you know what it is, give it to them.

[00:18:30] That builds value to that person and maybe they go out and start something great or they continue being active in your community. Rob, you're active in the Black Podcasters Association. At this point in time, you know, I would imagine that you're giving more advice than you're receiving in that group.

[00:18:51] You don't, I mean, I don't get the feeling because you and Corey are friends, but I don't get the feeling that you have any interest in leaving that group just because, you know, you have a certain amount of expertise. Like you're there for the community. And I don't think, I don't think most other people would be like, well, now you've given me so much praise and, and I'm the expert. I'm going to leave too. You know what I mean?

[00:19:15] It's not a competition is what I'm trying to say is I'm poorly doing this, but share the love, share, share, give everybody flowers who deserves flowers, you know, elevate them to that. Almost like a leadership role in that community, unofficial, but elevate them. I don't know who, who, who initially said this, but you know, there's a saying that if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go with others.

[00:19:43] So yeah, when, when, when there's a group of people and everyone brings their own level of expertise to that group, they bring their own experiences to that group. They bring their own, you know, you know, projects that they're working on to that group. And as you get to know people, it is, it is much better to be a matchmaker than it is to answer all the questions because that gets boring after a while. At that point, it feels like training. I'm going to go to this group. I'm going to ask my questions. This person is going to answer them. I want to get my information.

[00:20:13] Then I'm going to go and I'm going to do something. Now, I don't want to say that that's, that's wrong that, you know, some communities, they may be based off of that. That's how, how they're structured. So I don't want to say if that's what you do that, you know, that, you know, if it's working for you, great, but when I'm, when I'm truly thinking about community that can exist on its own without the moderators actively putting content into the, into the community, that can only happen when you're connecting people with each other.

[00:20:41] And it's a, it's another reason why communities exist in the first place, why people want to join these things for the diversity of thought in a lot of ways to, to basically, you know, you may join a community because, you know, you're, you're an RC racer and you like to race your cars against other people who have RC cars. So you start hanging out with people who race RC cars, and then you decide to kind of form a group to where, okay,

[00:21:08] every Saturday at two, we're going to meet at this park and we're all going to race. And then as you're there, you're going to see someone who has a different car from the, what you have. Like, Oh, what is that kind of car? What kind of, you know, you know, what does that do? Why did you do this this way? What, you know, like I'm not an RC racer to that extent to where I get into the nitty gritty of it, but there are people who are, and the way you find out stuff is by seeing other people have done something and say, Oh, that's kind of cool. And then you go and do, you know, some of the same thing.

[00:21:35] So the way for me that a community is fostered is when the moderators are very intentional about not answering every question. But by actually putting questions out to the group and allowing someone else that has that expertise to actually answer. Now, particularly in the beginning, you've got to moderate that because if you have a level of expertise, you know, you know, maybe someone else doesn't and they may miss something.

[00:22:02] So, but you're at least giving any opportunity and you can go in and you can correct in a, you know, a non-accusatory way where actually you now have both people learning something, you know, in your group. But it's just very important that you actually are fostering community by actually allowing the community to interact with itself, not just with the moderators. Can I give you an example that I had this week of, or maybe it was last week,

[00:22:26] of a really good, effective way that community can work. So Anon Jr. is a community member for the Daily Tech News Show. Anon Jr. writes emails all the time in for the Daily Tech News Show. He is very active on the Daily Tech News Show Patreon. We, Rob, released the episode with technical issues and making mistakes and being okay with that.

[00:22:55] And they're going to happen. We released that episode. You told a story about how at your church, you always give your pastor, you know, you have backups, redundancies to the mics and all that stuff. And Anon, he sent an email through Patreon. He sent a message to us. And he shared his experience with that. And it's basically like, he's like, we always have, their preacher, or Reverend or whatever he was, he's always mic'd up with a physical mic.

[00:23:23] And then he has, if he steps away from the podium, whatever, he has a wireless mic to access to. But that is Anon Jr. who is really good in the DTS, DTNS community, right? He answers questions. He provides additional, I don't know what he does for a living, but I know it's technical based on his emails. But he answers questions. He gives more insight. He's very active in that community.

[00:23:52] And then we come over, he came over to our community. And he has, you know, kind of starting that process in our community. And that is, I consider him to be a really good asset for the community because he takes it upon himself to answer these questions, to interact, to make the community better.

[00:24:18] You know, here's something, Bodhi, that I found about people who join these communities. A lot of times you're going to have people like yourself, myself, like Anon Jr., where they have a level of expertise in something. And it could be a significant level of expertise in something. And you will often find that people who have expertise in stuff, they like to talk about the stuff they have expertise in.

[00:24:44] And you may have someone in a community where, if you're a member of a community, you ask a question about something that this person has expertise in. Because they are also a member of the community, they are more than happy to answer that question. And it is extremely rare. They are looking for something in return. It is just, you know, it is just, you asked a question in my wheelhouse.

[00:25:12] I have the answer and the time to answer it. I'm going to go and do so. Corey Gumbs, you know, made this point in an episode, in an episode we did with him in talking about community. You potentially can get answers to questions when you are a member of a community that would cost you hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to get outside of the community. Because although that person likes to answer questions that are asked of them, they cannot, it's not effective to do it, you know,

[00:25:40] for every person to ask individually because they would never have time to get their work done. Or if that is their work, they would never eat if they were doing all that for free. But inside of that community, that's just kind of where they go. And, oh, yeah, I got the time to answer this question. Let me tell this person, here's how I got through this. Where if you were consulting with that person, it could literally cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars to have that same conversation. So those are some of the benefits. I know I jumped around as to what a benefit is.

[00:26:10] But a benefit of a community is being able to lean on and receive some of the expertise of the community simply because you're a member of it. What are your thoughts on, you know, where people should be building these communities? These where, like, I would imagine if you have a hyper local community, you know, if you're talking about your neighborhood or your city,

[00:26:34] you can build that community in real life, like right out in the open, have meetings and things like that. But if you have something that's a broad subject like technology, that's going to be a little more difficult to have in real life IRL meetings. What what where would you recommend people go? So it's interesting because I don't want to say evolving. I have I have I don't want to seem like I'm not a fan of social media because I absolutely and I understand what social media is.

[00:27:04] I get it. I've got accounts on multiple platforms and I use social media daily. But very recently, Elon Musk, this is in the last couple of days, actually, has let the world know. He's reminded the world that you don't own, in many cases, your own social media account.

[00:27:25] And this comes up from, you know, not to get complete sidetrack, but like Alex Infowars basically was auctioned off everything, including the the X accounts. And Elon Musk said, no, no, no, you don't own those X accounts. I own those X accounts, which is true. If you if you were to go look at your terms of service for for for X, if you were to look at the terms of service for TikTok, if you look at the terms of service for threads for Instagram, you don't own those accounts.

[00:27:54] You can't just transfer those accounts without actually getting permission from those companies. Build a community, you know, inside of someone else's walled garden where you don't have any control of it. I look to things to where, you know, it's a service that you use now. Discord is a place where people will build communities.

[00:28:23] I feel a little bit better about that because you, you know, you basically are getting the services from Discord and people are creating their accounts. But you have a little bit more control over the content that's going on in there. I will look at things like Circle or things like Mighty Networks or things like Kajabi or, you know, you know, you know, platforms that exist where it's not a social media platform.

[00:28:48] You may even pay to have access to the platform, but you are responsible for creating the community on the platform and the platform. The way they generate their revenue is that you pay them for the for the use of the platform. It's not free where you just, you know, they're making their money off of the social media aspect of it. So I'm not a fan of building communities in social media just because at any time, you know, things can change.

[00:29:18] Algorithms can change and that could adversely affect your, you know, affect your community. Some folks are going to say, what about Facebook groups? You know, I've heard of, you know, ginormous, you know, groups inside of Facebook. They're great. But at the same time, they are social media and I've generally seen people move off of Facebook to go to other things and not so much go from other things and move to Facebook. So I'm a fan of Patreon. We use it.

[00:29:47] That's where we're building a community. I'm a fan of Mighty Networks. I use it and I'm a member of a couple of communities there. I am a member of a few communities that have been built on Circle. I am testing out school for another project that I'm working on. So there are plenty of platforms out there that would allow you to host conversation, to host files, to, you know, to get folks.

[00:30:12] Another place where you could build community is literally with an email, you know, newsletter where you can build a, you know, you can build a community in something like Substack. I'm kind of coming around the Substack just because I've seen how some people are using it. And you do own your list inside of Substack. You could export it out and take that list somewhere else because it's based off of people's email addresses, not based off of a account that they have within Substack.

[00:30:37] So the answer to where should you build your community is pretty much anywhere. There are all kinds of places where you can build communities, many for free, some others for, you know, for charge. Where I tend to, you know, say, I don't know that I would do it here. I don't know that I would build it inside of threads.

[00:30:57] I don't know that I would build it on a social media platform just because those platforms are designed to benefit the company running the platform, not necessarily designed to benefit the people who are on it. I don't want to say there's an antagonistic relationship there, but you could run into I've seen groups that existed in Facebook where Facebook didn't like some of the things were happening in the group and they shut the group down.

[00:31:23] And then, well, what do we do is like, well, hopefully you had everybody's email because that group no longer exists as far as Facebook is concerned. Yeah, it becomes way more difficult to regain that momentum. I do want to say one of the things that I liked about when Justin Robert Young switched over to Substack, he had nothing but good things to say with the folks that he was working with during the transition. Now, he's a big account.

[00:31:51] That's not going to be the same for smaller creators. But it is nice to know, hey, they're there to help and they are trying. They're not actively ignoring you as a creator. So that's good. The other thing that I really liked when we talked to Corey is GroupApp. He said that even the founder of the company, GroupApp is small, was really responsive to his needs and the community's needs.

[00:32:19] And, you know, I'm not saying the other ones that Rob mentioned aren't that, you know, that's something you have to look into for yourself. But for me, if I was going to pull the trigger on one of those two, you know, it kind of depends. They're not apples to apples comparisons. But if I was going to pull the trigger on one of those two services or any service, I would want to know, hey, I know so-and-so and I know that they got good service from this company because that's important to me. When I have a problem, I need to be able to reach out to somebody.

[00:32:48] Now, I don't have a contact at Patreon, but I have reached out to Patreon before and they've always been very responsive. And it's been a positive experience. And some of those problems that I had involved getting my money, you know, that could be a sticky wicket because there's a lot of emotions involved when they're holding on to your money because of whatever reason. So make sure to do your research and find out what their support looks like and if that's going to match what you need as a creator.

[00:33:16] If I could say, what am I looking for in a community a little bit more eloquently? I would want my community that their monetization mechanism that basically the community software that I am using because we're talking about software at this point or software services. The software or the service is the product. That's what I that's what I'm looking for in a community.

[00:33:43] That the thing that I'm using is the product, whether it be free or paid. The thing that I am using is the product. I don't want the members of the community to be the product for the company, if that makes sense. And that's why I make a distinction between social media and companies that make money some other way other than social media.

[00:34:04] Because I think that when you when you actually are, you know, in like a Facebook group, you know, Facebook actually puts wrappers around how you can even monetize or even if you technically should be monetizing that community. Because Facebook's model is to monetize the people in the groups, not for you to monetize people in the groups. That's that's their model.

[00:34:30] So I would just I would just recommend that when you are looking for a community software, community services, that the service that you're looking at is the product, not the members of the community being the product for the company. Yeah, I completely agree. We've we've we've talked about protecting your audience or your community in the past. And you definitely I don't know if I've told you the story, Rob. I was with my family and I started going to this church. It was good. It's good.

[00:34:57] I'm Catholic, so I'm not used to going to church and the first 25 minutes of church being a rock and roll concert. But that's the kind of church this was. And we like the pastor. We like the people there. And then one day I was in I was trying to cancel. My oldest had a gym membership that I got for her over the summertime and it was time to cancel.

[00:35:16] She went back to school and I'm in there and the preacher's there and he is trying to get a free membership at Lifetime Fitness, not Lifetime, 24 Hour Fitness for him and his wife. If he could bring out his community in, you know, the parish in for the thing. And we stopped going to church that day to that church.

[00:35:41] We stopped going to that church that day because I was like, you know what, man, that's this guy's offering you like $19 a month at that time was pretty good. They didn't have the $7 a month plans like they do now or $9 a month, whatever it is. And that made a significant impact on me. One, because I just wanted to cancel my membership. But two, I had to sit there and listen for 45 minutes, this guy trying to save $20 a month for he and his wife.

[00:36:10] Yeah, that is the icky side of like affiliate marketing. It is. Not to change gears on, you know, us talking about community, but I'll just throw that out there about affiliate marketing. I am a fan of affiliate marketing when it's done ethically. So you will never hear me talk about something that I have an affiliate relationship with that I wouldn't have used without the affiliate relationship.

[00:36:36] But if like if I'm telling you, here is the podcasting hosting service that I think you should use. And the only reason I'm doing that is because they are paying me. That just makes me feel icky. It's like because I, you know, I value my opinion more than I would value what little bit of money I might make off that relationship. So, yeah, that seems the situation that you're telling me seems like it is I will join this gym.

[00:37:05] If you give it to me for free and for an exchange, I will tell my flock about how great the gym is so that they come here and that's how you make your money. And that's how mine gets, you know, that's how my membership gets paid for. Um, that just, yeah, that, that doesn't, you know, I know some folks are going to say semantics, but, uh, no, it's not. I, you know, I think that you can truly sponsor something, um, where you are truly looking out for the best interest of someone.

[00:37:35] You can, you can have an affiliate affiliate relationship with someone where you truly are looking out for what is best or you're, you're truly basing it off of your opinion of something. And it's not a thing of where you get, well, I'm only doing this because I'm getting paid for it. So yeah, that, yeah, I can see why you felt some make there that, that just doesn't, that doesn't seem cool. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't, but I also don't want, I'd also don't want that to open up the emails of this is why religion's bad.

[00:38:04] Cause I, I'm, I'm, I'm pro all types of religions. So, um, that it wasn't, uh, uh, some sort of bias confirmation. It was just the guy that's a, a human person who, you know, is his subject to the same foibles we all are. Yeah. That had nothing to do with religion. It had everything to do with it. That was just an icky type of affiliate relationship that that person was trying to set up. Yeah.

[00:38:30] And I think that, that, I mean, we've kind of already jumped into the next topic, which is the pitfalls of community. We've, we've touched on a couple of those. Do you have any other pitfalls? Yes. Um, pitfall is that when you start it, it's an absolute time suck. You have to know that you have to know that going into it. It is an absolute time suck when you start it, because when you first start your community, no one belongs to it except for you. When you are starting it, unless it is a group of people and that's when you decide to actually go create it.

[00:38:59] But if you're doing like, you know, we said, you know, um, if you're thinking about community before you even build the thing that the community is going to, you know, to revolve around, it can be a time suck in the beginning because you're going to be the one posting questions to the community. You're going to be the one answering all the questions for the community. You're going to be the one making connections between members of the community until it actually gets momentum and it go, you know, and it begins to move on its own.

[00:39:28] So you just have to know it is going to be a time suck. You are going to, it's like, man, why won't these people talk to each other? Because people don't talk to each other until they talk to each other. It's just one of those things. We can't tell you when it's going to happen. We can tell you that the consistency to the plan that eventually it is going to, um, you know, usually that's the case sometimes, you know, that there's some times where it just, you know, it just wasn't the right, you know, the right time for that particular community. I understand that. So yeah, that, that is a definite pitfall.

[00:39:56] It can absolutely be a time suck in the beginning. It's so worth it once you get it going, but it can absolutely be a time suck in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. It is oddly satisfying when you do see the community in there interacting without you. And, you know, depending on where your level of narcissism is, that may sound crazy to you or not.

[00:40:22] But when you look in there and you see people helping each other out or joking around or discussing a subject, um, it's really a, like, uh, I don't know. It just makes you proud. It makes you proud that you were able to facilitate some sort of, uh, conversation amongst people who are maybe across the world from one another or, you know, come from different ideologies or whatever.

[00:40:49] It's just, it's a nice thing for people to bond over. Yeah, you can, um, I've heard somebody explain communities and building communities like being a club promoter for a new club. In the beginning, it's a lot of hard work. You've got to have Thursday's got to be karaoke night when Tuesday's got to be ladies night. And you've, you've got to do these things as the promoter to get people in the door.

[00:41:17] But over time, people start to understand. I come here and I like, I like hanging out at this place. I like the people that I'm hanging out with, you know, at this particular club and it gets a momentum of its own. You don't necessarily stop doing those other things, but it isn't necessarily the promoter doing those things. It could be now. It's just everybody knows that Thursday night's karaoke night. No one really had to set it up. There's a karaoke machine. It's just, you know, you know, someone who works there now is just setting that thing up.

[00:41:46] There wasn't an advertisement for it. There wasn't a big promotion to get people to come in. It's just that once everyone knows, oh, every Thursday, that's when we have karaoke. Then it becomes a lot easier on that promoter because they don't have to actively do that promotion. But in the beginning, it's like not just, hey, Thursday night's karaoke night. They're handing out flyers or saying, hey, would you like to come? It's like, you know, you know, get in free before 10 o'clock. You know, those kind of things have to happen in the beginning. And that is all on the builder of said community.

[00:42:15] You have to look at yourself as the club promoter in the beginning to where it is incumbent upon you to get things running and off the ground. That is so true. And I love the analogy of running a club because it kind of does feel that way for sure. Although I've never run a club. But if I had to, if I had to imagine what it was like, that's how I would manage it. But what are some of the, this kind of brings us to our final topics, which again, we've, you started off with and we've kind of hit pretty hard.

[00:42:45] But what are some benefits we haven't already discussed in building a community? The relationships. I have seen communities that have, there are a few communities I've been members of, I've been a member of for years in some cases. And I've seen collaborations inside of these communities. I've seen businesses spurned out of these communities. I've seen marriages out of some of these communities. I've seen other communities come out of these communities.

[00:43:15] So it's, it's, it's, you know, you know, what are some of the benefits? It's, it's, you know, if it's, if it's a great community, it's a great, it's a great place to belong. The relationships are the value in that community. The fact that you know this person or you are at least you have, there's something in common. It's like, I'm a member of this community. They're a member of the community. And you can reach out and have a conversation with someone simply because you both belong to the same thing. That is a very, very valuable thing.

[00:43:42] Like I have, I have friendships that will be lifelong friendships at this point because I've met somebody in a community over a shared, you know, over a shared common interest that we had. We, we have come to find out that we have many more interests outside of the community and we're friends outside of the community and hang out and do things outside of the community. I, you know, cannot place value on that because now there are, there are people who I would consider some of my best friends that I've actually met inside of the community.

[00:44:09] In some cases that were free in some cases that I was actually paying a, you know, to, to be a member of. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I don't have anything to add because that's exactly my experience as well. I mean, the marriage thing, I don't know. I have married couples that are part of my community, but in, in terms of my personal relationships, like next week, I'm planning on going and having coffee with somebody who listens to my other show.

[00:44:33] Who's in town for a work thing, you know, uh, I've, I've had lunches with people and, um, it's really nice to meet people in real life, but, uh, yeah. And those things as a shy person who, who is introverted, I'm a friendly person, but, uh, I'm, I'm very introverted and I don't, I'm not usually the first person to speak up in, in anything, whether it's online or through, um,

[00:45:01] through, uh, in, you know, real life type of things. But once you get me going, you can't shut me up. And, uh, these relationships that you can build through these, these systems, whether it's, you know, going to the podcaster meetup or some creator meetup or, uh, going to, you know, the Tesla meetup or whatever. Uh, those relationships may, may not spur like, you know, best friend type, uh, vibes, but somebody that you can go to, if you need help, somebody that you can go to.

[00:45:29] If, um, you're stuck and when you're stuck, or if you're feeling lonely in this job, those people are going to support you and pull you out. Well, do you and I know each other because of a community that someone that you and I both know, uh, belongs to Alison Sheridan?

[00:45:51] Um, you know, came, uh, you know, she, she basically is a member of the SMR podcast community and we have not, you know, SMR podcast right now is on hiatus. We haven't done the show probably in two and a half, three months. Um, but it's on hiatus, but I still get text messages from people who are members of that community. The community didn't stop just because we stopped creating content for, and we're going, we're going to get back to it in the beginning of the year for anybody who listens to this, who also listens, uh, you know, to that we, we are coming back to regular, uh, conversations.

[00:46:21] But, um, you and I have ultimately met because I, at some point met Alison Sheridan through a community that she became a member of for SMR podcast and brought her on the show and got to know her. And she will not let me eat for free anytime I, you know, um, you know, or, you know, pay to eat anytime I'm around her. She will, you know, she and her husband, Steve will take me out whenever they see me. Um, and it's cool. These are now friends that I have independently of a podcast that was created.

[00:46:52] Um, and you know, she's introduced me to people that, you know, she's introduced you to people and we've ultimately, you and I have been able to come together simply because I knew this person. And she hooked me up with someone who you knew, and we ended up having mutual friends. And then we ended up, you know, you know, you know, you felt comfortable to reach out to me. And now you and I are doing a podcast together that is in season three. So that's what community can do. Um, like I said, it can be so much more than that.

[00:47:21] Like I actually know people who are a member of a community that I'm a member of who've gotten married and they met each other in the community. We all met at the same time. Two of them are now married. You know, that is a really good. That's a really good thing that I hadn't been thinking of. Uh, I'm, I'm a member of Allison's community. I'm also a member of SMR's community, uh, member of the DTNS community. Uh, I help out Allison, uh, often. She comes on my show often.

[00:47:51] She's come on our show. Um, but through those communities and those, um, interactions that I've touched with the DTNS, SMR, and through Allison's show, um, I have people who actively came over from those communities to my community. And they're, they're very active in my community as well. So that, that just goes to show you, uh, go be active and, uh, there will be some crossover.

[00:48:21] People tend to like to hang out with people who like the same stuff they like. It's not a hundred percent fast rule, but if you are really, really, really in RC car racing, there's a good chance that someone else who's also really, really, really in RC car racing, that you could join a community together where you will hang out every other week, racing cars, doing what you do.

[00:48:43] Or flying drones or paint, you know, you know, or, or painting or whatever, whatever the shared experience is that you both enjoy or the multiple of you enjoy that that's ultimately, you know, how communities are started. And that's, that's how they're built. And as I said, you know, you know, what are the benefits is the relationships? Because as I said, there are people that I know that I consider very, very good friends who I met because we are a member of a community, um, about something that we don't even really talk about all that.

[00:49:13] Much any longer. We, you know, we, we talk about it when we talk about it, but there are so many other things that we have in common that those usually dominate the conversation whenever we get together. And that is invaluable. And I believe that that is, uh, you know, the relationships, as I said at the beginning are the most important thing about a community because you, you, you never know who you're going to know in a community. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:49:38] Rob, I think we have done a really good job of getting a 30 minute podcast done in about 50 minutes. Do you have any parting thoughts? No, I will just go back to, uh, you know, to, to, to the first item since we started with the fifth item. I'll go back to the first one. Now, if you are a creator and it doesn't matter what your creation is, if you, if you, if you, if you're a creator in a space and you're listening to a show,

[00:50:04] like, uh, you know, the show that you're, uh, you know, you're on right now, if you're, if you're listening to, you know, you know, beyond the post.fm, then you should be thinking about the people that your content impacts in the way that a community can be built. You should be thinking about that right now, because as Bodie said at the beginning, you started off your kilowatt podcast community with three people. It has grown since then, but it was only three people in the beginning.

[00:50:34] And I think that a lot of times we look at these, you look at like Amy Porterfield and you look at like her community or something like that. Or you look at like a Pat Flynn. Like they've got tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people who are listening to them. And, and, and, you know, tens of thousands that are members of their communities. And you think, well, that's what I've got to be. It's like, no, that's, you know, maybe you'll get there one day, but that's not how communities start. They start off with just a few people who are, you know, coming together around a common goal, a common shared interest,

[00:51:04] and just hanging out and getting to know each other and answering questions and asking questions and helping, you know, and being helpful. And I think if you're thinking about that from day one, not about what a community can do for you, but what a community can do for the community, what it can do for the members of the community. I think you're, you're starting in a good place.

[00:51:24] So Rob, this is, we're into season three right now, but if people want to know how we put together season three, how, how could they do that? Well, they can, they can become a patron. They can, they can become a patron of beyond the post where we actually have some inside sausage making type episodes where we literally are building in public. And, you know, inside of our patron community.

[00:51:54] So where folks can come in, you're going to hear us almost stream of conscious. Think about how are we going to build the next thing that we're building for, for, for beyond the post. So I think that's probably the most apropos way. Join our community. If you're interesting in how Bodie and I are building a community, join our community. We'll tell you we're not shy. Nope. We'll show you exactly what we're doing.

[00:52:17] That's kind of the reason that the community exists so that we have a place where people who are interested in the type of content that we're creating can come and hang out and get some of that behind the scenes type information about what we're doing to grow our own community. To grow our own platform, to grow our own YouTube channel, to grow our own podcast, to grow our own new email newsletter. All the things that we're doing as far as content and putting it out in the world. Yeah.

[00:52:45] And just because the Robin, I've been doing this for a while does not make it. It doesn't mean it's easy. Like we were still, we're new podcasts. We're still facing the same struggles that every other podcast out there is making. We might have some different solutions if you've never done this before, but you're going to see us run up against some hurdles and discuss how we're going to solve those. So I would highly encourage people to go check it out. Absolutely. So yeah, just come hang out with us.

[00:53:12] So just head over to beyondthepost.fm slash Patreon. And we've got a few tiers over there. And, you know, we'd love to have you come hang out with us.