Interview: Roger Chang

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[00:00:26] Welcome back to Beyond the Post with Rob Dunwoody and Bodie Grimm.

[00:00:29] I'm Rob Dunwoody and I'm Bodie Grimm.

[00:00:31] And this week we're interviewing Roger Chang, executive producer and booker of the award-winning

[00:00:35] daily tech news show.

[00:00:36] We'll dive into Roger's 25 plus year career producing some of the hottest tech content

[00:00:40] on both television and the inner webs and find out what advice he has for those working

[00:00:44] behind the scenes in today's independent media production landscape.

[00:00:47] Roger Chang is currently the executive producer and booker for daily tech news show but

[00:00:51] he got to start over a quarter century ago at ZDTV back when he was a producer for the

[00:00:56] network two daily shows, the screen savers and call for help.

[00:00:59] I personally became aware of Roger's work around the time tech TV came about and that

[00:01:05] new set that was built for the screen savers Roger, I think that was back like in 2021.

[00:01:10] Yeah, to that, yeah 2001.

[00:01:13] How was a long time ago but yeah we just got bought by Volk Inventures which is part

[00:01:21] of Tim Paul Allen's investment group and we wanted to shake things up in screen savers

[00:01:30] at the time was one of the most popular shows on the network.

[00:01:33] So they wanted to give it a little more splash, a little more presence.

[00:01:39] I remember watching I believe the very first episode of the screen savers when the change

[00:01:45] from ZDTV to tech TV happened.

[00:01:48] I remember looking at that cool set and just looking at the show.

[00:01:51] I don't know if you saw this post I put on social media, this is probably back in July

[00:01:56] or August of last year but I said man this is I remember thinking to myself back and

[00:02:01] this is really cool.

[00:02:02] It's like you got folks that are literally on television talking about tech how cool

[00:02:06] is that?

[00:02:07] And then fast for 20 years and I'm now working with you and Tom and Sarah and Norton

[00:02:15] and all these other folks that came from that era, you know Megamaroni just so many folks

[00:02:21] that I'm actually in the world working with today at this not that how cool that is.

[00:02:27] It is a very interesting journey because when the network when the tech TV before tech

[00:02:36] TV started and was ZDTV it was brutally an outgrowth of a publishing empire, the ZIF Davis

[00:02:44] publishing group and a lot of the concepts that went into it were originally laid out when

[00:02:53] ZIF Davis had a co-production with NBC as part of the MSNBC, the trying to remember the

[00:03:01] site was a co-collaboration.

[00:03:05] And after that ended there was talk of like why don't we just do our own channel and we'll

[00:03:13] do a cable network which was back then was invoked.

[00:03:17] I mean everyone who wanted to be in TV just started up their own channel and the idea

[00:03:23] behind it was let us take all these all this information we have that is spread across

[00:03:30] the pink at the time was five or six different computer magazines amongst many others.

[00:03:35] ZIF Davis publications and kind of coalesce that into a series of shows on a channel that

[00:03:42] is branded ZIF Davis thus the ZD and ZDTV but I did not start until after that got launched

[00:03:50] and I was in intern.

[00:03:52] So when I got started it was 23 so I was right out of school literally because I graduated

[00:03:58] that summer of my internship and they offered me a job.

[00:04:03] So you were an intern tech TV or ZDTV and then you got hired as an employee what was your

[00:04:11] job did it change or just the responsibilities change.

[00:04:15] So when I was an intern there was an intern program that ZIF Davis had and at least for what

[00:04:23] they called back then the help pod that was the name that they gave to call for help in

[00:04:28] screen savers together called the help pod and the interns for that showed had at least

[00:04:36] four different duties one was to answer the phone clear out the voicemail you hear all

[00:04:41] the messages that people leave because this was before email was as widely used as it is

[00:04:48] today.

[00:04:49] And so a lot of people did what they did back then during call radio they just called and

[00:04:53] left a message on the voicemail so our job was to go through transcribe that and clear

[00:05:01] out the voicemail and see if there are any usable questions for the show.

[00:05:08] The second bits were more kind of specific to what the producers needed so sometimes I

[00:05:14] was a go for I would literally bring things to the studio and bring them back because at

[00:05:19] the time our studios actually for the entire time our studios in our offices were in two

[00:05:25] physically different locations and we had a little shuttle that went between them.

[00:05:31] And so my job was to bring stuff back and forth from the studio back as well as help

[00:05:37] at the time of filling him who was the tech PA for both shows and to help assist him if

[00:05:44] he needed it.

[00:05:46] So Roger you know going back you mean you started doing this back in the late 90s how did

[00:05:51] you go from where you were actually an intern then you know you became a producer you're

[00:05:57] doing all kind of stuff on set much of a behind the scene sometimes on camera how did

[00:06:02] you go from that to where you are today a producer of daily tech news show and daily tech

[00:06:09] news show is a very long running you know technology news show that has literally thousands

[00:06:18] of episodes where you put content out every single weekday how did you just go from

[00:06:23] where you were to where you are today.

[00:06:26] So it's very interesting because when I went into ZDTV at the time I was just looking for

[00:06:33] an internship because I needed to fill my internship class quota in order to get all my

[00:06:38] credits to graduate so when I when I intern there I had really interned two other places

[00:06:44] of varying levels of satisfaction on my part and you know ZDTV has offered the last

[00:06:54] thing I needed to graduate so I went into it and at the time I had a very limited understanding

[00:07:02] of what the network beyond it was beyond that it was ZDTV and it was about computer technology

[00:07:08] and it was a 24 hour network.

[00:07:12] And so when I started I just kind of did what they asked me to do but I'm already I was

[00:07:19] already partial to a lot of the this the content that the network or at least the shows that

[00:07:26] I worked on coffral and screened sayers put out so I involved myself with a lot of that

[00:07:31] stuff that they needed whether it was helping fill set up particular equipment or talking

[00:07:39] to you know the various elements that the the show needed to run so people and at the

[00:07:47] time before was called IT was called I asked information services that department as well

[00:07:53] as talking to the studio people who incidentally if you've if you've listened to my podcast

[00:07:59] I did last year about the tech TV scrapbook a lot of the people I worked with were also classmates

[00:08:07] so a lot of us from SF State were working there so in a way it felt it felt very familiar

[00:08:15] but also very you know like oh we're just in another grade or we're another level of

[00:08:20] university because now I'm still working with the same people but we're now doing stuff

[00:08:26] for an actual private for profit company and so I did a lot of that and as I did I really

[00:08:34] took advantage of all the opportunities that presented itself to not just do more stuff

[00:08:41] but to learn about it and so when the time came at the end of my internship they actually

[00:08:47] needed a PA to fill fill out because Phil Allen hand moved over to the tech or a ZDTV

[00:08:53] labs and so they had an opening and I'm not sure if it says relevant is this today but back then

[00:09:00] internships were a key stepping stone to getting into a corporate corporate environment or

[00:09:07] a business environment and so they already knew I had the acumen to do the job it was really just more

[00:09:14] of a academic process of making sure I was out of college because at the time the ZIF Davis required

[00:09:22] everyone to at least have a college degree and had nothing else to do is how I agree to it

[00:09:29] and and that's how I started as I did that job again I took advantage of all the opportunities

[00:09:37] whether it was talking to guests that we had on whether it was talking to some of the other

[00:09:44] show producers not the ones that worked strictly on on screen servers or call for help but some of

[00:09:49] the adjacent shows as well and there were a few opportunities to work with other groups

[00:09:56] as well that I took advantage of and I will say you know when when you come out of college when

[00:10:04] you come out of university and you're you're immediately dropped into an environment that

[00:10:08] seems very you know 10 foot tall to you like you know it's like being dropped out of

[00:10:15] you know your JV team in high school and suddenly you're either playing you know you're

[00:10:20] you might be a third-string quarterback in a protein but you're in a pro club right and so there

[00:10:25] was very much of the like wow I you felt the enormity of it and so I was very very circumspect about

[00:10:34] everything I did because the last thing I wanted to be was the guy who screwed up something that

[00:10:40] you know affected the show or affected someone's behavior or affected you know something negatively

[00:10:47] so you know I kept doing that and the most important thing that I got out of tech TV ZDTV was

[00:10:55] networking that's where I met Patrick Norton I met Leo Laporte I met Scott Harriet I met a

[00:11:02] number of people in the company that would later on become very crucial in how my career path

[00:11:11] sort of like directed itself as I as when tech TV eventually got bought by Comcast and turned

[00:11:19] into G4 TV I was offered the opportunity to move down with them to become at the time kind of

[00:11:26] the geek on the network but I turned that down mostly because the pay offer was marginally

[00:11:35] better than what I was already getting paid which wasn't really that much and I had some personal

[00:11:42] commitments already in the air not in the area but family and other things so I decided to kind

[00:11:49] of pass on that and I picked up a job at CNET and I worked for GameSpot the game review

[00:11:56] site and I was there for about a year and a half and I left that and then I ended up working again

[00:12:04] for ZIF Davis but this time for the ZIF Davis publishing arm which was going through bankruptcy

[00:12:13] bankruptcy reorganization and I got that because two people I knew from tech TV Patrick Norton

[00:12:20] and Jim Latterback were looking for someone to help them fill out their their VOD their video and

[00:12:27] demand streaming show called DLTV and so I helped them out with a couple of CESs and then they

[00:12:34] just hired me as a producer. I want to interrupt you for a second because that that seems like

[00:12:38] that's a change because you went from where you were cable TV to or now it's video on demand

[00:12:44] so yeah how did that change I know that's not necessarily where we are today with like YouTube and

[00:12:50] you know twitching kind of stuff but but how did that video demand how was that different in your

[00:12:54] career from what you had been doing when it was that you know that old school cable that we think of

[00:13:00] back in the early 2000s. So just to fill you in a little bit about what I was doing at

[00:13:07] ScreenSaver's call for help initially I was kind of the tech PA my job was to make sure all the

[00:13:12] computers are set up for the shoot the daily shoot that means software that needed to be installed web

[00:13:18] bookmarks so we needed to have this site that's set up if there was hardware that needed to be installed

[00:13:25] whether it was a USB device or just a standalone like say like a game console like a PlayStation 2

[00:13:31] I had to make sure that was up and running and plugged into a TV and working so I would have to

[00:13:36] coordinate with the studio crew and you know they would what we would call clear scan which is

[00:13:41] basically making sure the scan between the TV and the camera were in sync so you wouldn't see a

[00:13:47] scan line when you're watching at home on on any of the displays. As I went through and as often

[00:13:57] happens if anyone has ever worked in an corporate environment where there's a lot of a lot of

[00:14:03] people who move on because you get better opportunities I think one of the things I should mention is

[00:14:09] this is the kind of height of the dot com bubble so a lot of people were leaving for for

[00:14:15] dot com's whether it was like you know pet smart or there were a few for a little site called

[00:14:25] Asgees which was supposed to be like a Yahoo competitor and so there were constant openings because

[00:14:33] people were just up and going and as you move up openings open up you know people kind of shift

[00:14:39] all in one and so they needed a producer and so since I was already a PA and I was familiar with

[00:14:46] everything basically we want to be a producer too it's like all right I'll do it so as a tech PA

[00:14:52] producer learned on my TV chops you know I did guest interviews I did you know I had to come up

[00:14:59] with segments about helping how to so whether it was from a viewer email or something that Leo had

[00:15:05] at the top of his mind I would kind of implement or or develop that into something that you would

[00:15:11] watch on TV when I moved out of that my first real taste of doing video for web was at GameSpot

[00:15:19] because at the time they were doing a lot of game interview game developer interviews as well

[00:15:25] as game reviews where they would just review a game and I would sit there record it and then edit out

[00:15:32] all the all the stuff they didn't need for the stand-up interview and throw in all the game footage

[00:15:37] to go with it so I was my first one and it was a it was a it was a very interesting shift at the time

[00:15:44] because for the most part a lot of what the web streaming video was of two varieties it was

[00:15:51] existing television content that was just repackaged and streamed online and other the second half

[00:15:57] oh the the other half was purposely made video and at that time a lot of companies put the bare

[00:16:04] minimum in terms of money and investment that so it had a very um a thread bear feel about it

[00:16:13] it would just be a person there to looking into a camera and they would be talking uh GameSpot

[00:16:19] tried the straddle that too uh Ryan Mcdonald who was in charge of GameSpot live the department I was in

[00:16:26] was trying to kind of up the values and that's why they brought me on board so I helped them with

[00:16:32] lighting because oftentimes they were shooting these uh game editors and they were just poorly lit so

[00:16:38] you just thought there was like a light off uh in the studio or the audio was

[00:16:44] uh less than desirable for for web streaming audience because as we all know web streaming was very

[00:16:53] very much that uh limited to the uh a hundred k or less uh in terms of bitrate so you really had

[00:17:01] to massage the audio uh order to make it sound the best at that bitrate so when I eventually in the

[00:17:08] bitred dltv I was already familiar with the process um really what it was at that point was to

[00:17:16] how do you get content that people will sit and watch and i think that was the biggest difficulty

[00:17:24] or the biggest challenge i should say was growing in audience and that i think uh most of all was

[00:17:30] what i picked up from my time at the zift davis publishing uh was growing in audience because

[00:17:38] it's a question that people kind of struggle with today whether you're on tech talk whether you're

[00:17:43] doing youtube videos whether you have your own rss stream uh growing the audience has always been

[00:17:50] the number one you know challenge for any creator um and you know when I eventually ended up at

[00:17:56] provision three you know we tried a variety of uh uh uh avenues it was you know um collaboration with

[00:18:04] existing work you know existing high popularity uh creators it's doing viral content which you know

[00:18:14] when i look back as i always thought was a little misguided because trying to find and create a viral

[00:18:19] video um generally tends not to work because the viral videos further very definition come out

[00:18:26] of something that no one expects uh and um what when i eventually when i finally ended up with uh

[00:18:36] a daily tech news show um you know the a lot of what we've done over the years is to how do we cultivate

[00:18:46] how do we keep and how do we expand our our listener audience uh base because really for any creator

[00:18:55] you live and die by your audience some uh do very well um if you look at the mr beasts if you look at

[00:19:04] uh you know even even the i justines and and uh just uh just new created twitch you know there

[00:19:12] there are all these big stories about individuals who've really made it big but there are literally

[00:19:18] hundreds if not thousands of other people who are still trying to get that critical mass of people

[00:19:25] and you know back it back uh back maybe five years ago was all about how do we how do we

[00:19:32] how do we not gain but how do we ride the algorithm whether it's youtube or whatever platform in order

[00:19:38] to get aren't you know to get a higher profile have you found any strategies that work better than

[00:19:43] others for what you do personally or what the team at detainest does um one strategy i have always

[00:19:51] found to be very worthwhile and very uh i don't want timeless time of science kind of maybe uh

[00:19:58] hokey but it is a timeless thing is that you appreciate the audience that watches you whether

[00:20:05] it was called for helper screen savers one of the key hooks of the show is that we interacted with

[00:20:11] the audience we acknowledged their existence and acknowledge a contribution to the show whether

[00:20:17] it was a form of questions or video calls um still weird to me that like we pioneered that whole

[00:20:24] thing if people just calling in with little consumer webcams from three comp uh or you know dl tv

[00:20:32] revision three just uh and and to now to daily technician having that rapport with an audience

[00:20:39] your existence on it's so important because you know like any any other any kind of any other venture

[00:20:47] that you might do having you know having an ecosystem that's around you is very important and for

[00:20:54] creators that is your audience and you know if you're lucky you can you can you can you can score big

[00:21:01] and you can be a little more um maybe a little more capricious about how you approach your audience but

[00:21:09] you know for most i think you know understanding uh and then being honest with the audience not like

[00:21:16] doing weird switch and bates or or you know pretending to be something that you're not or pretending

[00:21:22] your content is something that it's not um because you know if you can either go one of two ways you

[00:21:28] can keep and grow you know grow an audience or you can just kind of funnel in people who see your

[00:21:35] content and really excited and then they never watch again but then you have to find someone else

[00:21:40] to replace them because what you want to repeat customers so Roger in terms of podcasting you have a

[00:21:47] fairly large audience uh it detainess and you also have a fairly large team you know most most

[00:21:54] podcasters is usually a one two maybe three person shop but it's it's it's quite a production

[00:22:00] over at daily tech news show so how do you effectively juggle all of the needs of the show uh

[00:22:07] versus the needs of the host versus the needs of the guest and produce this because once again

[00:22:12] daily tech news show is exactly like the name sounds this is something that you're doing every single day

[00:22:18] and from someone who is now part of you know part of that team it is a very very well oil

[00:22:23] machine but you were doing this for for 10 years before you know five personally joining the team so

[00:22:28] could you just you know kind of walk us through how you actually get to where you've grown to

[00:22:33] wear daily tech news show is today but how you just keep all those moving parts because as I said it

[00:22:38] it is a it's an operation this is not you know it's not a couple couple guys working out of their

[00:22:44] basement this is this is a team of people that are planted all over the United States that are

[00:22:48] they're helping you produce and create this show i mean it's it's kind of weird that you say it is

[00:22:54] it is such a production because and this is not to downplay what we do or what any of the other

[00:22:59] whether it's Tom Joe Sarah you uh work on the show but i've always understood as being a very kind

[00:23:08] of like lean operation like you have to understand when i come from tv there is an entire studio

[00:23:14] full of people whose whole job is to make sure the video is shot correctly and broadcast to the

[00:23:21] appropriate uh satellite so it gets to the the correct audience when i was at revision three we had

[00:23:27] an entire bay of editors whose only job it was was to edit and make everything look nice we had a

[00:23:33] studio crew and granted it was small but it was three people that were in the studio that would

[00:23:39] help that were shooting recording met doing all the audio stuff and so we're in this place now

[00:23:46] we're all whether it's Sarah Tom myself we're all doing portions of that and i think

[00:23:54] one of the big uh one of the big keys with that is that Tom myself and Sarah have all gone

[00:24:02] through a similar uh a production background like television and then uh you know like web

[00:24:08] web streaming and then you know podcasting uh and for for Tom and uh Sarah they were over at

[00:24:14] twit with Leo Laporte and so there there's an understanding of what works and what doesn't

[00:24:22] but i think one of the key things to do is how do you divide up the tasks how do you divide up the

[00:24:27] labor right you know it's it's very much of finding out for example during the during the run down

[00:24:36] production well i'm responsible for the show uh it's either Tom Sarah uh that is responsible or

[00:24:44] in some days uh you rob uh for for the kind or in this case for daily headlines

[00:24:50] responsible for the run down that means the content that goes in uh as well as any

[00:24:56] ancillaries i am responsible for any of the guest content so we have a guest on board

[00:25:01] i've already pre-interviewed them and i already have an idea of the content that we need to go out

[00:25:07] and it but having a clear understanding of the division of labor is crucial

[00:25:12] so the show is there as our tech producer so he's there to make sure that stream yard is acting

[00:25:18] uh correctly has all the elements that he needs uh he can switch uh from his system and he's not

[00:25:24] having problems worst case scenario i'm his backup it's one reason why we use stream yard though

[00:25:30] if he's having an issue i can jump in and things will still work um the second very important thing

[00:25:37] is to have a production calendar and this is something you know that i just i've done since

[00:25:44] television i've always you know looked a month out it used to be every two weeks but you know

[00:25:50] generally speaking looking a month out gives you enough time whether it's a guest

[00:25:57] whether it's a production element that you want to include uh it gives you enough time to

[00:26:02] figure out how to do it but more importantly if you can do it and if something breaks what do you

[00:26:07] do uh to fill in that uh content hole uh when you when that thing doesn't work out also when it comes

[00:26:14] to guests it gives me enough time to ask a guest uh about dates that they can come on and they can look

[00:26:21] oh hey i'm at a i'm at a trade show or i'm at a convention or i have a business meaning

[00:26:28] i can easily work around that instead of trying to uh fight everything out a week out which in

[00:26:34] in my experience tends to be a little too short so i tend to look anywhere from three to four weeks

[00:26:40] out in terms of the production calendar crucial crucial if you want to have a lot of guests on the show

[00:26:47] but it's also good to have if you want to plan content for example if you have particular holidays

[00:26:54] or you have back to school what do you need uh or summer you know summer events or we have ces

[00:27:00] ces was was one that uh tom sir and i uh knocked her heads around a couple of weeks before um christmas break

[00:27:10] not so much the content but more about what we were doing and how we were going to do it

[00:27:15] so just having a production calendar and looking at it on a daily basis is is crucial if you don't

[00:27:22] want to trip over your own feet what if you do what if you do want to trip over your own feet just

[00:27:27] throw it out the window uh you can i mean i've seen producers kind of wing it um

[00:27:34] and and in some of those cases it works but there there there shows tend to be weekly not

[00:27:40] not daily when i was at revision three i had texilla which is twice a week but i also had hd

[00:27:48] which is once a week and i also had um another uh another three shows that i was managing so my entire

[00:27:56] week was filled up i was doing uh i own eyes uh our opinions are we come from the future

[00:28:03] i did a youtube show that we had contractually worked with youtube called download it which was

[00:28:10] a pundit show so imagine the mc now i don't know if anyone knows just imagine your standard kind of

[00:28:16] seen and pundit show except that's about tex uh and that was you know for so four four

[00:28:23] out my five days i was shooting and then after i was shooting i was coming back and uh making it

[00:28:29] notes and and going through the calendar um as well as writing new segments for for texilla really

[00:28:35] the calendar is important because if you have so many moving pieces uh it allows you to figure out

[00:28:43] when pieces might collide so if someone's sick if someone's out or in the case of uh dts or

[00:28:51] or my previous work um hey we're going to be dark so we need to double up on shoots

[00:28:57] so we have some content to fill even though no one's going to be in the studio or in the office

[00:29:02] for that week so it's it is it is something that everyone should do

[00:29:07] um in my in my in my recommendation unless you like having aneurysms and perennially high blood pressure

[00:29:17] so so so Roger uh one of the things we do uh voting i at the end of the show we run into these rapid

[00:29:24] fire questions but i think you have actually answered one of them like one of our questions is

[00:29:30] like what is your number one production tip for putting a quality show together and you just gave us

[00:29:34] all that so i think that that might uh you know you know a calendar uh production calendar from our

[00:29:41] producer standpoint sounds like that is a pretty important thing to do uh and as we said folks who

[00:29:46] who don't know daily technique show isn't every day show with multiple hosts that you know there's

[00:29:52] there's rotating host you've got contributors coming in there are a lot of moving parts and

[00:29:57] one of the things always say is that when you're in the middle of something you don't necessarily

[00:30:02] realize how much it is or you don't really think about it unless you you kind of take a step outside

[00:30:06] and look back at it but there's there are you know there's dozens of contributors uh you've got

[00:30:12] guests coming in there just so so many moving parts so i want to give you a rapid fire question um

[00:30:19] related to the one that you've already answered about your number one production tip what is

[00:30:25] a tool that you would recommend for building your production calendar?

[00:30:31] The best tool i have often found is the one that you'll use like you could come up with you could

[00:30:39] spend a thousand dollars on a software suite or an office suite that will help you make it but if

[00:30:45] it's something that you don't feel comfortable with or you find hard to understand um you you

[00:30:53] probably won't use it and as a tool that means it's it's failed in its shop for example i use

[00:30:58] Google calendar but before then i've used a variety of tools i used Lotus Notes i've used iCal

[00:31:06] i've used something that enables me or empowers me to look constantly at the calendar on a regular

[00:31:15] basis and not have to fiddle with special tools um uh uh uh uh uh aamus uh or uh part-time uh tech

[00:31:26] tech producer in uh helps Tom with uh the word with Tom and a few other shows uh he uses

[00:31:34] oxana uh to kind of schedule his his his duties uh which is uh sana what's uh sana

[00:31:42] uh sana uh to kind of because he finds it to he finds it to be very you find he finds it a tool that

[00:31:48] he can integrate integrate with very easily and that he is constantly on so it's providing him the

[00:31:55] feedback you want to make sure that you have a tool it can be very simple it can be again i use

[00:32:01] Google calendar but it has to be something that you will use every day and you don't have to be

[00:32:07] forces just an automatic thing like you're not you're not forcing yourself to figure out how things

[00:32:13] work because um the the more time you spend trying to work out the kinks in your calendar uh on

[00:32:21] the on the software tool that is your calendar the less time you were you're spending paying

[00:32:26] attention all the stuff you need for your production next one uh this next one may or may not fall

[00:32:32] under the same thing that robes what is a piece of gear that you would recommend to to somebody

[00:32:38] i would have to say just you know a good laptop and i specifically say laptop because there are

[00:32:43] times where you will have either a flash of brilliance or you just won't be at home but you still

[00:32:51] need still want to punch uh content in the laptops a great way to do it i know people some people

[00:32:57] want to use foldable phones and i know some people love using tablets but i always find

[00:33:03] that to be at least for me to be really productive i need a good keyboard and when it comes to

[00:33:10] keyboard unless you can unless you're willing to haul a uh a switch keyboard with you wherever you go

[00:33:17] there are some laptops like the thing pes that have really outstanding keyboards that you know

[00:33:23] where when you type you don't feel like you're working against the wind in order to get your thoughts

[00:33:29] across so roger a lot of folks who listen uh you know to our show they are interested in being in

[00:33:36] front of the camera in front of the microphone but we also have some who are absolutely

[00:33:40] interested in being behind the mic uh being behind the camera so what is your best piece of advice

[00:33:47] for someone who wants to actually move more into that realm of podcast producing specifically

[00:33:55] so if you're if you're coming at and you've never done it before you want to do podcasting

[00:34:01] what i would say is understand all the elements of it whether it is

[00:34:07] being in front of the camera or being on mic you want to have a clear understanding of what

[00:34:14] each of those roles what each of those elements needs to be because it gives you a much better picture

[00:34:21] of what it will take you to produce it and deliver that product whether it's a daily schedule or

[00:34:28] weekly schedule or or biweekly schedule it's very important that you understand because podcasting

[00:34:34] like radios are very intimate medium and if there's nothing else that you take away from anything

[00:34:42] i've said today one thing you will need to do is to listen back to what you've made constantly

[00:34:49] it is uh it's the only way that anyone ever gets better right you know you can tell someone

[00:34:55] hey rob you did you did great on this one but maybe next time you want to do it this way well

[00:35:02] you won't have a frame of reference you won't have context until you've listened to that exact same

[00:35:07] episode and a lot of people tend to be very sheepish whether it's listening or watching themselves

[00:35:13] or something that they've done because there is a love there's an element of self criticism that

[00:35:20] you need to be able to to constructively digest in order to make the product better so

[00:35:27] you know being listening to your stuff on a regular basis is key because then you

[00:35:33] understand what people are listening to you the listening to uh on a regular basis and you can

[00:35:39] make a value judgment on whether or not your content should shift we do this we do this uh semi

[00:35:45] regularly with um dtns we call it aircheck where we all listen to one episode and we come back with

[00:35:52] notes about what we've heard or seen uh and what we think could be better because you know a show

[00:35:58] needs to constantly adjust um whether it's because of content changes or the format changes or you know

[00:36:08] maybe you decide instead of a week instead of a weekly show you want to do a daily show and so

[00:36:13] you need to you need to be able to to understand what that product is from all the way around right

[00:36:19] from from when you start writing from when you record for what you put out in and the end product

[00:36:26] so that means being able to listen and and and listen to it all the way through i want to give you

[00:36:32] one last rapid fire question uh there seems to be a debate right now on the internet audio versus video

[00:36:40] do you have a take is it one or the other is it both is it's whatever is necessary what is your

[00:36:46] take on the debate right now of audio versus video when it comes to creating content i have

[00:36:52] and this is very important it depends on what your final output is if you are doing a tiktok video

[00:36:59] where a bulk of your messaging is captions or graphics or something that is visually uh processed

[00:37:10] yet the video is more important but nine times out of ten whether it's a podcast whether it's a

[00:37:17] tiktok of a youtube short and you're talking audio psychologically is more important to the listener

[00:37:25] and this is uh to the to the audience and the reason why is this the human brain will accept

[00:37:31] crappier video as long as the information that they hear is intelligible and the reason why

[00:37:38] is this is because you know although we are visual creatures we process a majority of the stuff around

[00:37:46] us through our ears and if you've ever watched or if you've ever grown up with a rabbit or tv

[00:37:52] you know you'll accept you know really poor like mediocre picture quality if you can hear what

[00:37:58] they're saying because then you get an understanding of what's happening if you try watching tv with

[00:38:03] the volume off you tell me what's going on after ten minutes of watching you can maybe give me vague

[00:38:09] generalities about their having an argument or their having a discussion or there's an emergency

[00:38:14] but you won't actually get the full scope of what's what's happening without listening to it

[00:38:20] unless of course you have captions so so for me audio. Roger thank you so much for being really generous

[00:38:26] with your time do you have anything that you would like to plug or point anybody to your socials?

[00:38:33] um yeah if you if you can that you know if you haven't listened to it already a daily tech

[00:38:38] new show at dailytechnewshow.com and i'll show watch Eileen Rivera's and Sarah Laine's new show

[00:38:46] Apple Vision show get it Apple Vision show great show about Apple products if you're an Apple fan

[00:38:54] we're just Apple curious definitely worth watching so Roger Chang thank you so much for taking this

[00:39:01] 40 minutes or so to spend with Bode and I really appreciate you coming and hanging out with us

[00:39:07] and uh you know once again everybody who's listening go check out dailytech new show i'm not doing

[00:39:12] a self plug i'm plugging our guests because uh you know i am a host of a co-host of that show as well

[00:39:18] but if you like tech and if you're listening to this show you probably do that's a good one to go

[00:39:22] check out. So Roger till we talk again thank you for having me

[00:39:36] you