The Art of Building Community with Corey Gumbs (Part 2)

[00:00:00] Beyond the Post with Robb Dunwood and Bodie Grimm and this is part two of our interview with Corey Gumbs of the Black Podcasters Association. In part one, we learned how Corey took a idea and turned that idea into a Facebook group and then grew that into a thriving online community. In part two, we're going to learn a little bit more about the ins and outs of operating a community like the Black Podcasters Association.

[00:00:31] So, Corey, there is a bit of tech and software that is involved with running a community. Like I said, you started off on Facebook, then you moved to Mighty Networks. I know BPA has just moved yet to a brand new platform. Has it been three months yet? It's been relatively recent. We officially moved in October. So, yes, that's just last month.

[00:01:00] So, what do you have as far as recommendations for the type of software, the type of service that someone that wants to start a community? You know, we use Patreon. That's what we use here with Beyond the Post. We've actually created a Patreon community. But do you have any recommendations just as far as like, you know, just things that people could try to create that community to go along with their podcast or with their YouTube channel or whatever content they're creating?

[00:01:31] You know, I'm pretty software agnostic right now because nobody's signed a deal with me yet. So, I've got to be real careful who I promote. But I'll say this first, right? If you want to start a community, right, you have to think about – and this is something I learned too, right? You have to think about the access to that community. Because remember, Rob, I don't think you remember we had this conversation when I was on the Facebook group when I had put it in the Facebook group about Discord.

[00:01:58] Now, me being a tech person, I knew of Discord because I do programming too, right? So, you know, that's a programmer's platform, you know, when it first came out. And I was going to put – originally, I was going to put the community on Discord. And then I was just going to write out any scripts or whatever I need to automate it and all that stuff for what I wanted to do. But I was like, let me see. You know, unfortunately, I hate to say this, but, you know, Black people aren't always the most tech savvy. And I was just putting it in there. I was like, does anybody here use Discord?

[00:02:30] And I got a whole lot of what's that, what's that, what's that? I've never heard of it. What is it? And I was like, that's not going to be a good choice for me, especially with the learning curve of Discord, to start a community on. So I say that was when you're looking at software, when you're looking at products, you have to think about your community in a way of ease of access. Because if you make it a very uneasy experience for them, they're not going to come. They're not going to participate. They're not going to be there. So we moved over to the GroupApp platform.

[00:02:59] So far, I'm loving it. It's a young startup. And one of the things I love about GroupApp is their founder, their team is very involved in the development. They listen to their community. And one of the things I love about the founder is if you rank a recommendation for a feature, he's asking you, well, why is this important to you? Why do you think we need to add this to our platform? He's asking these questions to get an idea to see, you know, because sometimes you got to ask somebody, why do you want that?

[00:03:28] Some people are like, oh, why don't we have this? And then we ask them why they can't give you a clear answer. So I like that part about it. So, you know, he's very they're very meticulous about what they're going to bring to the platform and what they're not. Sometimes I'm like, that would be a good idea. But then I also be like, well, this is not really in the scope of it. So I like GroupApp. That's where we move to. Man, it's so many. I'm an AppSumo addict. So it's like I'm always constantly on there looking for different software to help me. And one, help the community.

[00:03:58] Because I also look at the software on there like, how can this help my community? Like, and then I would make a recommendation to the community. Like, I think you need to try this or take a look at it. But GroupApp for community. Patreon is good. You want to also look at what they take from you. If you're especially trying to monetize it, right? Like, what are the fees? How much of the fees? Is it you got a plan for that? Like, OK, my membership fee is going to be $100 a year. And, you know, Stripe is already taking their, you know, their percentage.

[00:04:28] And then this platform is taking an additional percentage. You know, you got to look into all of that stuff if you're trying to monetize your community. But I think for me, the biggest thing, Patreon, what else is there? I think you have to have an idea of what you want to offer and then find a platform or a source or tool that's like Circle or Mighty Networks or GroupApp. Or even if you Facebook, I see people run real successful Facebook groups and it works for them.

[00:04:55] Because they have a clear idea of what they're providing to their audience. So I can't really tell you like a specific software. My biggest advice would be is map it out, plan out what you're going to offer your community and find the tools that are going to get you as close to it as possible. And test them out. You know, go in there and play around with it for a few, you know, for a month or two, even if you have to pay for it. Like Mighty Networks, right? We want Mighty Networks. I love how well the app translates to the website.

[00:05:24] But a lot of my members just didn't like the user experience. That's one reason why we moved off of there. It was too confusing for them. And you got to pay attention to those things as well. I know I didn't answer your question fully, Rob. No, no, no. You did. I was just looking for a couple of... Actually, you gave... If I had to lean in, I would say like... I'm going to say GroupApp. I'm going to say GroupApp because we're on there. I would say Mighty Networks, Circle, Patreon.

[00:05:55] Some of those bigger platforms. A Discord server right now. Discord is much more popular now than it was a couple of years ago. When I was looking into it. Slack. I've seen some people do some really great stuff with Slack. So, you know, the ones that have really been at the top of their game, I would probably lean towards. Especially starting a community. School is one that I'm looking at. I haven't used it yet either. It's one that I'm looking at because I just keep hearing.

[00:06:21] I think Alex Hermosey or somebody is behind that one. Yeah. Kajabi. Kajabi is a good platform too. They've added a lot more stuff for community stuff on there as well. But yeah, I think the larger point that I was making is that, you know, like I said, you started BPA on Facebook. So Facebook, you know, Facebook groups, they're free to create. But you are building in someone else's walled garden. And at any time, they can change terms of service.

[00:06:50] They can say, yeah, we don't like a group. They can shut it down. I've heard horror stories of people who are in some other walled garden to where the primary service is advertising and not the actual servicing of the group. Well, I mean, like Facebook recently cut off third-party app access. So I can't post. I can't schedule posts. I got to literally go into business manager. I can't use my social media manager anymore to post into the group. And that changes a lot.

[00:07:20] Because I'm not, you know, you've got all these different platforms you're managing. It's like, hey, like, you know, you know, you got to add another one, another workflow into what you already, all the many workflows you already have. So you do have to pay attention to those things. So, yeah, I'm glad you did say that because that's a real example. And it completely would change the way of how you would have to manage that group if you could no longer use the tools that you were used to using. So, Corey, you've heard me say this for four years. I am not a fan of free.

[00:07:47] I understand the benefits of free platforms and why free platforms exist. But free trial? Cool. But when it's just free, you're not a customer. You're the product. Like when you're in Facebook, you're not Facebook's customer. You're Facebook's product. Because you're not paying them. They're making money off of your data. So, yeah, so it's like all of these systems that are out there, and there are many of them.

[00:08:16] And because I'm just community focused, I kind of look at a few here and there. You do have to kind of make sure that you are, you know, finding the ones that have the features that you're going to need. And you want to, you know, you want to build it for growth. What may work for 10 people today may not work for 10,000 people a year from today. Or if you had that kind of growth, that would be pretty ridiculous. Let's say five years from today, 10,000 people. It may not work that way.

[00:08:41] Yeah, you know, and that's a good point because that's something I learned these past couple of months moving from Mighty Networks to a new platform, which is, you know, we had a lot of content and a lot of conversations. But I can't move those over to the new platform. And that was something that you have to consider. Like the content that you may be creating inside your community if you're using a platform like Mighty Networks and stuff. Some of it you can.

[00:09:09] They do, you know, some of them they allow you to do CSVs and all that stuff. But, you know, then you have to ask yourself, is this even feasible to bring over? Like that was a dilemma I had to do. It's like, you know, I said I have to rescue what I can rescue. And then I just have to chalk it up. The rest is like, well, this was fun. We had a good time. Now we start new, freshen and new over in this new space. So you have to think about that when you're thinking about growth. It's like, you know, does this platform, will this platform be able to grow with me as I grow?

[00:09:38] I'm not trying to disparage Mighty Networks, but Mighty Networks, when we first started versus where they're at now, they've chosen a direction for their platform that wasn't really conducive to how I wanted to do things. That's one of my main motivations for leaving the platform, besides the user experience that my members were complaining about. So you got to consider those things. You got to, you have to, you know, sometimes you got, you know, you might fall in love with something and you might, but your membership is like, nah, this is not working for me.

[00:10:07] You got to, you got to move on with it. But that is definitely something you have to consider when you're thinking about this, the scaling and it's this platform going to scale with you. And you might want to, you know, when you're looking at them, look at their roadmaps, try to find their roadmaps. They don't have a roadmap publicly facing. I don't know. In this day and age, most software has some kind of roadmap somewhere that you can find and see where they're going. We know what their feature sets are and where they're moving, what direction they're moving in. Yeah.

[00:10:34] What was your, what was your community's response to moving networks and then having to leave some of those conversations behind? So we have, so I, I, I, I could be wrong, but I kind of feel like BPA is an anomaly in the community space because we have such a great culture. And a lot of our members have been, like, you know, been known each other for years at this point now, like several years. And they've interacted or they've welcomed in new members to the point that they'd like their family.

[00:11:04] I know, and I will tell people this too, like you have to, you have to expect losses. So I knew we were going to lose some people because I knew we had people who were paying that were never active in a group because you can see that on the analytics. But for whatever reason, they wanted to continue their membership. I knew that moving over, I was probably going to lose a majority of those people. The response was real good. Most people came over. Most people, we had 160 members on Mighty Networks. We're at 130 something. So I'm around where I figured what we were going to lose anyway.

[00:11:35] The content wise, nobody's really made any complaints to me. I think everybody kind of had an idea of like, this is going to be, this is going to be a new, a new, a new platform for us to start on. What I did do is on this platform in particular, it has a library. So whatever I could take off of Mighty Networks, I put into our library in categories and stuff. So I try to categorize, which is one of the reasons why it took me so long to port everybody over, Rob, because that was a big project to do behind the scenes.

[00:12:04] So being a member, I guess I can talk about what that experience is like from the way that I perceive it, is that because of the library and the new system, a lot of the content as far as like if somebody wrote a long article, that got brought over. If there was some training or something, that got brought over. So those kind of things, I had access to it before, I have access to it now.

[00:12:30] Where you do lose access, if you were having an individual conversation, not even an individual, but let's say you were just in a thread and you were having a conversation and there was a lot of back and forth. That potentially, well, not potentially, that was lost because you couldn't bring that part over. That's the proprietary part of where Mighty Networks are, you couldn't bring that conversation over.

[00:12:50] But what I've noticed is that I personally didn't really miss any of that because it wasn't like, Corey, you decided that we're going to move off of this one platform and go to this new platform overnight. I mean, you took the better part of a year thinking about it and figuring it out and planning for it and going back and forth.

[00:13:11] So I know because you and I have inside conversations that you were thinking about it for many months before you even mentioned it to the community that it was even a possibility that you were going to move. So I think that, you know, for as a user, some of the conversations that I may have had that were kind of ongoing, everybody kind of knew, hey, we're going to move over to this new platform. So this is going to disappear. So you just kind of went over and just started continuing the conversation from where you were having it.

[00:13:41] So, you know, it's something that you notice, but it was nothing that's like, oh, wow, because I can't I cannot continue having this threaded conversation. It started, you know, 10, 12 months ago with, you know, 130 responses in it. And I don't want to move. I don't think that anyone, at least I will say from my perspective, I did not have that type of reaction to it because it's kind of like, oh, well, it's like it is what it is. It's like we're going to go over here and we just need to continue to have this conversation over here in this new place.

[00:14:09] Robin, I think, you know, because the philosophy I have is like, you know, everybody should be in a different space than when they were a year ago. So like those old conversations almost become, I think, in a Facebook group, like a free Facebook group, they're more relevant because people coming in, always constantly coming in and looking for information.

[00:14:24] And, you know, but as membership, because we were such a small, tight end group of members, a lot of those conversations, a lot of people that would engage in those conversations, I even learned or they moved on to something, a bigger and better conversation inside the community because their needs and their experiences have changed. So that was really that was really the deciding factor when I would look at them like, well, this conversation happened a year ago. It's a great conversation, great information in it. But the majority of the members that are here are way beyond this conversation now.

[00:14:54] I wanted to hold on to their conversation for, you know, or for future members that come in. But there was no way for me to really do that. So you just chalk it up and say, well, you know, we'll if they if they had this conversation now, that conversation is going to come up again. But we have the membership that already have the experience and they'll come in and even provide even better, greater content responses to those new people versus, you know, having that initial conversation that everybody's sort, you know, kind of sorting it out.

[00:15:23] So, you know, you just got to decide for yourself, like, OK, you know, what's where's the value here? So it was like my mentality was when everybody comes over, they'll just start conversations. And by the time we get new members coming in, those conversations will already be there. And to an outsider would look like, oh, my gosh, all this stuff has already been happening versus it just being a blank slate and getting a bunch. That's one reason why I was strategic on like, let me get all the old members in first before I even start promoting out and trying to recruit new members.

[00:15:51] Let me get the old members in there, get them acclimated, get them starting conversations so that when people come in, it's not you know, it's not just an empty group. It's an empty space with nothing in it. I want to I want to switch gears a little bit because I saw that when I go into your page and you look under the education stuff, there's a lot there. What kind of education opportunities are available on BPA?

[00:16:15] So right now you have access to our library of a lot of what I call learning labs. We have we've had we used to do like two learning labs a month and that got a little overwhelming for people. So we so I broke it down to one month. We have that we have articles. We have most of it is access to our workshops right now. So stuff that we've done over the past two two years since we moved to a private community.

[00:16:45] Also resources that, you know, somebody might send me or I find on my own and I just bring to the community. So that's the education part. But right now we're going to be about to we're about to restart the workshops. I'm actually scheduling out some for 2025. I have some people working on some actual courses and we're actually going to start doing like some cohorts where, you know, people come every week to come learn and how to do stuff. So that's what 2025 for us is looking like in the education part.

[00:17:13] It looks like you do like lunch learns. What are those? So I do we have a lunch and learn with Tanya McKenzie. She is a PR specialist. So she every month she chooses a topic to help podcasters with their PR learn how to do PR, understand PR and does walkthroughs about like how to, you know, how to do a what are they doing PR? Are, you know, when they blast out. Now I'm having a brain fart. Thank you. Press releases. Press releases.

[00:17:42] How to look at yourself as a media entity and how to go about getting, you know, getting passes to events and stuff, because a lot of podcasters don't understand that. And a lot of ways you are a journalist and in a lot of ways you're a media company entity and you could get access to some of these places that you didn't think you could get access to just by simply applying for a press pass. So she does. She does that once a month and, you know, she maps out the topics for the year and then we just do. She does a presentation with a Q&A.

[00:18:11] We do a lot of Q&A's in our community because a lot of our members have great questions and they're looking for answers. So one of the things and we'll wrap up here and we'll get into some rapid fire questions here in just a second.

[00:18:24] But one of the things that I have as a member of BPA have come to understand just about community and how things work is that, Bodhi, you started off the interview saying this, that, you know, being a content creator can be lonely. Oftentimes, you know, even when you're being supported by your friends and your family, this is one of the things that I say all the time.

[00:18:49] Support by your friends and family looks like, hey, I started a new podcast and they go listen to an episode or two. Support is not they listen to every episode that you create. But because they're not, it seems like, well, if my own family's not listening, who else is going to listen? And that's not the way you want to look at it. So it can feel it can feel lonely. But when you go into the BPA, well, here, you know, on the Facebook group, well, here's 2000 people who are thinking about, you know, podcasting.

[00:19:14] When you actually created the private group, it's like, oh, here's 170 some odd people who are really, really into podcasting. So much so that they join the community so that they can have these conversations with each other. And like, you know, there are things like there are areas of expertise that I have, but there are areas of expertise that other people have that I don't have. And by being in this community, I'm able to tap into that. Like Tanya McKenzie with PR.

[00:19:39] I've never thought about PR before, but I've watched a few of her Lunch and Learns like, oh, take a note on that. Oh, didn't know you could do this. Oh, you can get a press release out, you know, just by, you know, getting on the wire just by doing these kind of things because you're tapping into someone else's expertise. And I think that is ultimately what a community is. It's a lot of people that are kind of working towards individual common goals. Everybody is trying to work on their podcast and BPA.

[00:20:05] But because everyone has such different experiences and different levels of expertise, they're able to, you know, kind of give their, you know, their helping hand to your project. And it doesn't feel like you're so alone because I literally, you know, I'm affiliated with a hundred and some odd people who are just as, you know, mad about podcasting as I am. And, you know, so that community lets you, you just make it feel like you're not alone.

[00:20:34] There are other people who are going through exactly what you're going through. There are other people who have gone through it and they can give you some, they can give you some nuggets to help you get past things that you don't have to go through. They can help you, you know, up level your skill a little quicker because, hey, don't, you might want to, you might not want to do this because I did it and this is how it turned out. You might want to go this way because, you know, that's what actually got this problem fixed for me.

[00:20:55] So that's kind of been my, you know, you know, you know, my feedback on BPA is actually giving me someone who has been, I think as far as podcasters go, I've probably been doing it one of the longest in that group. I have a little more gray hair than many other folks in that group, but I still am able to learn stuff from people who haven't necessarily been podcasting as long as I have, but they have areas of expertise that I just never paid attention to around the topic of podcasting.

[00:21:23] I just want to throw something on top of that, Rob, and you probably, you probably gonna change your approach after this. But I also tell people sometimes the fact that you're in the community for some of these people who you have access to, if you were outside the community, you'd be paying a pretty penny for them to come and say, hey, maybe I think you should tweak this or tweak that. So I think that's another benefit of having a community is that sometimes the guard comes down and people, everybody says, everybody's, especially if you have the right culture in there. And everybody's there to help each other.

[00:21:53] You might get yourself a tweak that might actually cost you like $1,500 or something like that to have a sit down and have, or have one, or to hire that person to actually come in and do it for you. So I think that's like, there's a lot of byproducts from this that I've learned from that I didn't even predict myself. Like for instance, a lot of our members collaborate and are working on projects together now. So it's like, I feel like a dad sometimes when I find out about it. I'm like, how come I'm the last one to know about this?

[00:22:21] Like, you know, I'm like, I didn't know you guys are working together. You know, I've seen it. I'm seeing, I'm hearing, I'm seeing a press release. So I'm seeing it posted on social media and I'm like, why am I the last one to find out about this? Right. So, you know, but, but it makes me smile because it's like the whole goal of the community is for everybody to work together or towards a common goal. And these people have found a common goal that they wanted to work on and they started this project and it's like, wow. Like, you know, it's an amazing feeling to see that. So I just wanted to throw that on top of what you said, Rob.

[00:22:52] Corey, something called rapid fire questions that are rarely rapid fire. So take your time to answer the question. These are just questions that we have kind of like, we play fast and loose in the interview. And if you say something that's interesting, we're going to ask you about it. These, these are just kind of more like predetermined questions. Are you ready to do that? Or you want to take a sec? I'm ready. Let's go. Okay.

[00:23:17] So what do you think the biggest misconceptions people have about creator communities? What are those? Or just communities in general for that matter? I think the biggest, so I get triggered by when I hear people always say, you know, especially content creators, just throwing out the word community. I think people look at the biggest misconception is that creating a community around what you're doing is a cash cow. You can make a lot of money off of it. You could make money off it.

[00:23:44] But if you go in with the intention of it as I'm going to make money off of this and you don't forget to add the community part to the community, you're not going to, you're going to lose. And, you know, and then you're going to look like a grifter or you're going to look like somebody's just trying to take people's money by playing them on what they're looking for. What would you say your biggest piece of advice is for someone who wants to start their own member community? Don't. Don't do it.

[00:24:16] The biggest advice, so somebody wants to start their community. Oh, man. Y'all should have sent me this one for pre- I think the biggest advice I would give to you is what has helped me with what I'm doing is I had a clear goal of what I wanted this to be. And I created a mission and a vision, my mission and vision statements about it.

[00:24:44] And for me that they have evolved since I've started because the needs of the group and where we were, the direction we're going in has changed. But that's my litmus test on like whether I'm doing, whether I'm staying on the right path and I'm staying true to the goal because I'm guilty of it too with the BPA where it's like you get all these ideas and you start branching this way and then it starts to lose what you started it for.

[00:25:06] So if you have something, a document or something that's going to ground you to make sure is this in alignment with what this community is built for, it'll kind of keep you on it. You do have to evolve and be able to pivot, but you have to also stay true to why you're there because a lot of times that's why the people are there, right? That's why they joined. You had a goal, you had a mission and it resonated with them and they were like, I need to be a part of this. I want to be a part of this. And if you start to deviate from that, you're going to lose them.

[00:25:35] And then, you know, and history has shown us that across the board with governments and stuff like the minute they start changing, that's when everything goes downhill. So I try my best to really evaluate my mission statement and, you know, have an idea because I have crazy ideas. I'm like, is this in alignment with what I'm trying to do and stay on this path? So I think that, for me, that would be the biggest advice to, for anybody looking to start a community.

[00:26:02] So it goes back to having a roadmap, what you were saying earlier. Yeah. It doesn't have to be a crazy thought out. You just need to have something to help you along on the steps because, you know, you will lose steps. You will deviate. You will pivot. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. So you got to be able to have something that keeps you honest and keeps you on a straight path. Yeah. Like a North Star. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, like a moral code or something, you know, all of those things.

[00:26:31] Now, having said that, where do you think the future of creator communities are headed over the next couple of years? I think, well, that's something that, you know, I've been thinking about that a lot lately. Um, I think with the way companies are shifting and constantly changing how they want to pay out to creators, I think if you really want to be successful as a creator, you're going to have to have some form of community based around what you're doing.

[00:26:56] It doesn't have to be extensive and as big as what I'm trying to do, but you got to have something that brings the people together around what you're doing. Um, at least your core audience, right? Your core supporters. So if you decide you want to do a tour or do an event or you want to sell merchandise, those are, you know, that these people are going to be the ones that are going to be out here supporting you in that space.

[00:27:16] Um, uh, with it, I think, you know, um, you can't rely, like Rob said before, when you're, when you're relying on these, these, these products, you're relying on what they offer you and they can change it at the whim. Right. We've seen that within the music industry with Spotify and how they pay artists. Right. Um, we see that, we see that in the podcast and we see that with YouTube on, on how they change their monetization rules.

[00:27:38] So by having your own community, you're more in control of your, of your destiny in regards to the income you create off of that versus relying on other tools that, that can change or go out of business. So Corey, we're, uh, we're, we're at the end of our time, but before I let you go, I do want to talk about, um, you know, something you do with the 12 minutes of sleep you get. Uh, and, uh, so you decided, you know, I don't need that 12 minutes of sleep.

[00:28:05] So I'm going to go ahead and start a industry newsletter. So tell us a little bit about black pod news and what possessed you while trying to build a community. It's like, you know, I want to go build a newsletter at the same time. I like to torture myself. So, so I recently, okay. So I have a, this strong sense of justice.

[00:28:28] I've recently, Robert, as I told you, you know, I've recently got diagnosed with a neurodivergent and I realized that that, that was probably where that came. That's where it truly came from was this, this social justice thing, this just this need for justice. And it really started with, um, someone having a conversation, everything starts with a conversation with me. Right. It's like, this is a problem. We need to fix it. Well, somebody had wrote an article. They were trying to shop it to different, uh, uh, distributions in the, in the podcast industry.

[00:28:57] And the subject matter was about getting the industry to support more black businesses within it. And a lot of people were giving them personal response of like, Hey, that's not really in alignment with our content. And, um, I'm like, well, my New York attitude turns into F you. We'll do it ourselves. And that's kind of what I did was just like, he got it, he got it published somewhere else, you know, but, um, but it was like, nah, you shouldn't have to do that. So how can I help?

[00:29:25] How can I create something that allows, um, that allows us to have more control over, over the distribution of our content? And, um, you know, like everything else, I didn't know what I was doing. Rob for years kept telling me, I need to start a newsletter. I just need to have an email list. And I was like, I think, I just think I need a motivation or a purpose to do it. And I think that's what it was. And I was just looking around the industry, seeing what was there, what wasn't there. And I was just like, how do we fill this gap? How do I fill this gap?

[00:29:51] How do I help, uh, black podcasters with discoverability by creating, you know, by having a new release section? How do I promote people that I know that have really good ideas and they're really doing big things behind the scenes, but I don't ever see them publicly recognized. How can I encourage them to come right for the, and show their expertise. So I just created this newsletter really with the intention to promote more black voices in the podcast industry.

[00:30:15] And over the past year, I've learned that, um, it's something that is needed because I've had people from all groups come up to me and be like, thank you for this. Because I, you know, I have one person tell me how it helps him with his clients, some of his black clients that he has to connect and to understand what they're going through because of the content that we put on our newsletter. So it's, to me, it's more of a resource than it is a divisive vehicle. Cause I've been accused of that. Um, but the whole goal was to just create a space.

[00:30:43] So that you didn't, you didn't feel like you had to go and chase down somebody and then get discouraged because they tell you, you know, that it's not in alignment with what they're doing. Which a lot of times people use as a cop out. So, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll save that maybe and bring you back for another episode because we will be talking about newsletters at some point, but I knew that, you know, um, because I do know you well, I know that the black pot news is, uh, is important to you. So I wanted to give you the opportunity to, to shout that out.

[00:31:09] And, uh, Bodie, I didn't know if you had any additional questions, but you know, it's, I'll let you ask them if you do. Well, um, I, I checked and I, uh, my air media, uh, subscription ran out in August. So I'll make sure to re up that, but I, I'm a big fan of air media. Do you want to talk a little bit about air media? And then you can just, uh, give us a plug for black podcasters association as well. All right. Um, man, uh, so me being on the board was like, I did, you know, I was encouraged to run for the board.

[00:31:38] I was like, I don't know that many people. Like, I don't know. I don't, I was a member of air, you know, I would just use it as a resource, but, um, and I liked it too. Like, um, you know, the, the, the, the sound path, which is their version of a, of their education system. Um, they have a great library in there, like workshops and stuff that they've had, they've done, they've done. They bring in some really good people. Um, and you get a discount off of that as a member. Um, but when I ran for the board, I was like, you know, I was like, I don't, I mean, I just joined air and somebody was like, you should run.

[00:32:07] And then I got, supposedly I got like the second highest amount of votes ever in the history of the, of the, and I was like, I didn't even know that many people. But I think it's a great organization. I know that the board is wonderful. The executive team, the staff, they are wonderful. They really love what they do. Um, they love the community. They love the membership. Um, and they're very, they're the one thing I've learned from meeting members in air is everybody loved.

[00:32:30] They're very passionate about the audio space, uh, whether it's, uh, sound design or whether it's, um, what else? Uh, reporting and stuff like that. Um, but it's a great resource. It's, it's, uh, it has, uh, the directory, um, of members, you know, members, it makes it accessible to reach out to people. Um, but it's just been a welcoming and great community environment, uh, environment to be a part of.

[00:32:54] And I've learned so much from members just about the audio space in general, um, from like the, like the NPR, you know, that, that type of content and storytelling and stuff like that, because. I'm, I'm not very well versed in those areas. So it's a, it's a great community. It's almost like LinkedIn for podcasters. Like it's like you can connect with people on there. That's a good analogy. You can find a job. You just like you said, you have the video library stuff.

[00:33:22] Yeah. And you know, and it's very, it's, people are very connected with each other in the air. So that's another good thing. So, um, that's the part I think I liked about it most was like, you know, no matter where I go, everybody's welcoming. It's a community. Right. And, you know, and, um, when I was at resonate this past month, um, I met a lot of air members there and, you know, I got to hear what their needs were and stuff like that as well. So like, you know, a lot of people got laid off and they were talking about their experiences and stuff.

[00:33:51] So, and I, the one thing I really love about air is they're working diligently, but, um, with their rate guide. Um, I don't know if a lot of people know about it. They have a rate guide where they set rates on what you should be paying people. Um, and they're really pushing for more livable wages for engineers and editors and reporters and everybody in this audio space. So I think that's a very important project because people need to be able to make a good living off of what they do in this space.

[00:34:19] Yeah, no, that's really important. I think Rob, I think I shared the rate guide with you recently. Was it you? Um, Bo, do you send me so much stuff, man? I, I don't know. You probably, you probably did. I just can't remember that you did, but, uh, you know, I would imagine you probably did cause we probably talked, I know we've talked about it before. So you probably, it's super important cause it's so easy for somebody and I know you got to go for it. So, but it's so important for somebody to be like, yeah, I'll do this for $25 because then they think that's,

[00:34:49] you know, to the eight minute video or whatever. And they think it's going to take 30 minutes or whatever, but it's, it's so undervalued of what somebody would really be paid to edit an eight minute video. Right. Yeah. I talk about that a lot too, with a lot of people. Um, you know, one of the things I talk about was like, we have to, you have to stop undercutting your profession.

[00:35:12] So, you know, even inside the VP, I talk about that. It's like, I get it. We need money. We all need money. We're all, you know, we're all hustling. We're a lot of us are freelancers. We're out here trying to get, you know, get our money. And we want to, we got to, you know, some money is better than no money. But when you start doing it, excuse me, you start devaluing it. And I talk to, you know, potential podcasters and stuff. And when I talk about the editing process and why it's important for you to have an editor, why it's important for you to have, you know, a good engineer or producer on your team and why this is going to help you in the long run.

[00:35:41] And they start looking like, well, how much is it going to cost me? And it's like, I can get that on Fiverr. And I'm like, but you get what you pay for. And then you, then you come back to somebody like me and I'm like, well, now I'm charging you more money. Right. Because I have not only to have to fix what you did, not only to have to teach you what you need to know, because you want some, you try to cut a corner somewhere. I got to fix it.

[00:36:03] So, you know, and, and, and that's part of the problem, but that's why the air, like the air rate guides are important because it also gives you. And then if you start pitching the sponsors and stuff, now, you know what you need to, how much money you need to raise to get your, to support your project, to bring people in, to help you with your project. Right. So that's the other, that's the other side of it too. Because a lot of times when you're pitching to these companies and you're pitching, you know, for investment or brands, you're undercutting yourself.

[00:36:30] So, so Corey, tell us where else people can find you. I know, you know, like, so we've taken you well beyond the time that we asked you for, but where else can people find you, you know, online, outside of their media, by podcast association, you know, black pod news, where can folks get more Corey Gums if they're wanting to get more Corey Gums? I don't know if the world wants more of Corey Gums. Enough of me.

[00:36:57] I mean, you know, my socials are, you can always follow us on the black podcasters association on all platforms. I'm going to just tell you, search for it because it's a big name and every platform gives me a different handle of a length and handle. And I know blue skies like new thing now. So we're on there too. Um, we've been on there actually. Um, but you can find black podcast association or, um, you can look me up Corey Gums.

[00:37:22] Um, I'm on Instagram. Uh, I'm probably going to be more active on, um, blue sky. Since that's where a lot of people are moving to. Um, but, and on LinkedIn, you can find me Corey Gums on LinkedIn. Nice. Corey, thank you so much for coming on, man. Uh, I really feel like we could go and do a whole business of podcasting episode immediately after this. So thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you guys for having me here.

[00:37:47] Yeah, man. It's, it's been a pleasure having you. We appreciate you. Uh, you know, uh, you know, uh, you know, taking the time, uh, you now owe me one less favor. So I think you're down to 74 right now. So, so yeah, so we, we appreciate you, man. We'd like, we don't want to take up all your day. So we're going to go ahead and wrap up the show, uh, now, but, uh, it's been an absolute blast having you on. You dropped some real nuggets in this episode of beyond the post. So, uh, glad you were able to hang out with us. I'm glad to be here, man.

[00:38:17] Robin, I would like to thank Corey for being so generous with this time. If you want to learn more about the Black Podcasters Association, go to blackpodcastersassociation.com. You can also sign up for Corey's newsletter at blackpodnews.com. That's B-L-K-P-O-D-N-E-W-S.com. And then also we'll put Corey's social media and the Black Podcasters social media in the show notes as well.

[00:38:45] If you want to connect with them that way. Again, huge thank you to Corey Gumbs for coming on and chatting with us.