CEO and Founder of GoSun: Patrick Sherwin

[00:00:10] Electric Vehicles, 918Digital Hello everyone and welcome to Kilowatt, a podcast about electric vehicles, renewable energy, autonomous driving and much, much more. Today we are going to sit down with Patrick Sherwin, who is the founder and CEO of GoSun. GoSun designs, engineers and manufacturers really

[00:00:39] cool products that can be used for camping or off-grid living. Or if you are hit with a power outage for a couple of days, their products could help you kind of make the best of a bad

[00:00:51] situation. They have a ton of really cool products including ovens and coolers and different external power sources and water purification. We're going to talk a little bit about some of that during

[00:01:02] the interview. But what we're going to talk a lot about and what the main focus of this discussion is, is their EV solar charger. Now what I would like you to do is go to the website

[00:01:14] gosun.co. Alright, you're going to click on power and then you're going to click on the EV solar charger. And it'll say EV solar charger deposit. You'll click on that. You can see how

[00:01:32] this thing deploys, how it gets stored on top of your car, all that stuff. For this particular episode, I think it's a really good idea to get a point of reference for some of the items that

[00:01:41] we're going to talk about in this episode. So just go around and peruse their website. That way when we start to talk about this stuff, you'll kind of have a better idea as to what we're

[00:01:51] talking about. I'm also going to put a link to GoSun's website as well as a link to the specific EV solar charger in the show notes. So you can get to their website that way as

[00:02:01] well. And one more thing before we get to the interview, I want to thank Bruce W, who's a Patreon supporter of this show. Without Bruce, I would genuinely have no idea that this company

[00:02:14] or product existed. He's the one that first pointed it out to me and I thought it was interesting enough that I wanted to have Patrick on the show. So thank you, Bruce, for doing that for us. All right, everybody, let's welcome Patrick to the show.

[00:02:28] Thanks, Bodie. It's great to be here. It's great to have you. I'm super excited. Before we get into the main top of our show, I just want to have you just kind of introduce yourself and let people know who you are and kind of a

[00:02:42] little bit of your backstory. Yeah, Patrick Sherwin, I'm the CEO of GoSun. A brand I started about 10 years ago launching on Kickstarter. We first debuted a vacuum tube solar oven, makes a meal in just 20 minutes using

[00:02:58] nothing but sunlight. For the last about 25 years, I've been working in the solar energy space to try to get it to power our lives. I think I was a little disillusioned by the big business aspect

[00:03:11] of the solar coaster, state and US government based incentives, kind of a long sales cycle. And then finding myself more and more in board rooms talking about numbers versus really getting into

[00:03:25] solutions. I really enjoyed the beginning of my career, which was off grid, just putting panels on a small cabin to bring lights and fans and just basic power needs. So with GoSun, we have kind of

[00:03:41] been able to bring the best out of the solar industry into consumer focused products. We've done a whole ecosystem of products in the range of recreation and resilience. So think of things that

[00:03:56] you'll use when you're at the campsite off grid or even sometimes just your backyard, barbecuing and stuff. And then we also do a lot with resilience, which is kind of again the beginning of my

[00:04:10] career in solar was all about off grid, independence, self reliance, isolated grids. I lived a long time in the Caribbean and did a bunch of work to energize island life. And so I thrive in systems

[00:04:27] thinking and approach where you have to look at everything coming in and out of the property. And solar has kind of been the gateway for learning a lot about building science and energy efficiency, of course, electric vehicles. I've done a fair amount with wind turbines, biodiesel and

[00:04:47] food production, aquaculture, soil and plants health. And so it's been a really dynamic and enjoyable career. My background is educational background was in biology and chemistry with some dabbling in engineering. But by nature, I'm a problem solver. And I'm always thinking about like the

[00:05:10] future when it comes to innovation. Okay, and you pretty much answered all three questions I was going to ask you. So which is good job. I mean, that was great. When I look at your products, like it is, it definitely has a theme of

[00:05:27] like you said, like the people who are growing camping or the people who live in off grid. But like the solar, solar ovens amazing. But you can have it even goes down to like a portable

[00:05:38] coffee maker, which I'm going to be honest with you. My oldest her boyfriend is working on an off grid project right now. And he doesn't have a way to make coffee. So this might be something

[00:05:49] that we get for him in for Christmas next year. And maybe even some of this, you know, purified water systems and things like that, because they literally have nothing out there. While they're building their, their, their, I don't know, get away home. It's not a home, but it's

[00:06:06] definitely a place where they can go and kind of unplug. So cool. This is super cool. And, and Bo, do you mention that you do work with firefighting? That product that goes on

[00:06:15] brew was essentially came out of the, the forest fires and all of the fire bands that we were seeing out West at campgrounds. And you know, you literally couldn't make coffee. Sometimes you can't even use your camp stove, you know, the little butane or propane

[00:06:31] fired stove. So we had a situation with a bunch of fire refugees out in California, where they were running a vehicle with an inverter attached to the 12 volt battery to make 110 volt power and like a Mr. Coffee, you know, drip coffee pots sitting next to the engine

[00:06:52] just to, you know, just to get that fixed in the morning. And it's like, this is super, this is ridiculous. So the go son brew was an innovation that kind of blended a

[00:07:02] lot of all of the go son teams experience. And it's a travel mug with a French press and it's got an integrated 12 volt heater. It's 12 volt is everywhere. You can make it very easily with the sun as well. But every car truck boat RV has 12 volt. And you

[00:07:18] can make a coffee, you know, in 15 minutes, couple, couple cups of fresh coffee. So it's definitely a big one. And that largely came out of the world of fire prevention and sort of the limitations that have that have been put on so many

[00:07:32] environments because of the higher fire risks. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. This this may be every year we do a was that a white elephant gift? This may be a white elephant gift also that I throw out to

[00:07:45] these guys. Because I love that you can make it on the go because there are definitely times when we're in the truck where we want hot coffee. This would definitely be I'm a coffee guy. I love coffee. I got my I got my water but I

[00:07:59] also got my coffee over here. So you're also doing boats, which is I think great. You have what looks like a futuristic pontoon boat and how did that come about? Yeah, I mean, I love the world of outdoor recreation. And I

[00:08:17] always love being out. When I look at problems to solve, boating, you know, is something that is so energy intense in general by and large, you're pushing a multi ton vessel that's loaded up, you know, and all the weight in all the

[00:08:36] power that's required to move that is just extraordinary. And yet, you know, the whole goal is to have a few friends out on the water. To me, it's like any excuse to be on the water is a good one. And so it's just like I know it

[00:08:51] doesn't have to be this difficult to get on the water. And so we, you know, we kind of started a long design exercise that was like, can we combine all of our solar technology and appliances into something that's a

[00:09:06] floating, capable apparatus. And along that design process timeline, we discovered this gentleman in Eastern Europe who's making these devices. They're 250 pound inflatable, like you said, kind of a catamaran or a pontoon boat. It seats six people. There's an upper sun deck that you

[00:09:30] can, you know, you can lay out up top. We run them on these very efficient electric motors and we put solar on the roof so that you're basically, you know, charging your entire experience from the sun. I

[00:09:44] went on a four day camping trip where all the appliances on the boat were 100% solar powered. And we made our own water out of the lake. You know, we brewed our coffee in the morning on the on the broom, made

[00:09:58] tea in it at night. We cooked all of our meals on our solar ovens. We had one of our coolers. So we brought a bunch of warm drinks and we put them in the cooler and let them cool down every day. It was

[00:10:10] just an absolute joy to be completely autonomous and 100% solar powered. It's like one of the first times, you know, that you can recreate on the water without burning copious amounts of fuel. Yeah, and it looks like, and you maybe have downloaded if you had

[00:10:27] all your gear in there. But it shows four people just carrying it down to the water. So it looks like it's light enough for you just it's got hand holds on it, you just grab it and take it to

[00:10:38] where you need it to go. So if you had to like, if you're going from one lake to another, and there wasn't a far walk, you could easily do that if you needed to. Yeah, you can pull it up on the beach, you know, I've gone

[00:10:49] on solo camping trips, and I've been able to singlehandedly pull it up the beach so I could sleep on flat ground instead of sleeping over the water. I can get it in and out of the truck by myself, like when it's rolled up. It's a burrito about

[00:11:02] five foot long and two feet round when it's all deflated. Then when it inflates, it's 15 feet long, seven feet tall and eight feet wide. So it's yeah, it's a massive really unique super durable inflatable material that kind of changes again the way

[00:11:23] that we look at at recreating you know, it doesn't have to be so complicated and so energy intense, you know, and then you can keep it stored in the corner of the garage or you know, in some little closet instead of having to rent a slip or having

[00:11:39] a bunch of property where you can have your boat on a trailer out there. That's excellent. This is really cool. And actually I can honestly go through all of your products. But I asked you here to talk about the EV solar charger. So do you want to

[00:11:54] tell us a little bit about what the EV solar charger is? Yeah. So this is a way to basically drive on sunshine. You know, one of the big problems with electric vehicles is that sometimes it's hard to find public charging infrastructure.

[00:12:10] You know, many people living in apartments or in places on city streets where they don't have the ability to have a garage and their own charging capability will struggle to get at the public, the public infrastructure not quite keeping

[00:12:23] up with the speed of adoption of electric vehicles. And of course, we're always trying to do as much as we can with the sun. So this has been a lifelong pursuit is to drive on sunshine.

[00:12:34] And what it is is a four by four foot box that you know, looks a lot like a rooftop carrier that you'd put on the on the top of your Yakama roof rack. And that stays there semi permanently, it's just about five inches thick. And so it's

[00:12:50] rather aerodynamic. That has a 200 watt solar panel on the lid. And then when you park your car at work or again on the side street or in your apartment, you open this lid and inside is a bunch of flexible solar panels that unfold across

[00:13:07] the body of the vehicle. And now you can achieve upwards of 1200 watts of solar. So it's kind of the the heaviest, you know, energy, energy to the footprint, or horsepower to weight ever found in the solar space. And you can make upwards

[00:13:26] of 30 miles of range every day, assuming that you'd have this parked at work from nine to five in a sunny parking lot. And and what we're doing is just taking, you know, solar power and turning it into household 110 volt power, which is level one

[00:13:46] charging for electric vehicle. And then we go into the standard charge port on the exterior of the car. And when there's sun, you're charging. Of course, at night, it's not working. But if you say went to the airport and left your car

[00:14:04] with this array folded across it, you know, you would basically get about 10% range every day. So you could show up at the airport at 30% power. And when you came home after a week's trip, you'd have 100% full range. Excellent. And I would imagine this would also work for folks

[00:14:24] who like to go camping and kind of go out in the back, backwoods a little bit as long as you got access to the sun. This will work for them as well. How do you keep people from like, I know

[00:14:35] that there's a lock on it. But how do you keep people from, you know, taking it? What what's the Yeah, yeah, it's locked as well as the the roof racks are locked. And then, you know, for people in really high theft

[00:14:50] urban environments, there's that sentry mode, you know, that a lot of EVs have where you have like a video point of vigilance, we're also throwing a tracking like an Apple Air tag inside each box so that you can track it should it should it get

[00:15:06] thiefed. You know, you have to cut through metal in order to take it which, you know, certainly happens to kayaks and bicycles and things that are on on vehicles. But going back to the piece around a brown camping to this product literally

[00:15:22] produces household power, as well as 12 volt and USB. And so this is also an exercise in resilience, where having this for you know, your camp route rig, your bug out rig, your job site. This will you know, charge devices, it'll, you

[00:15:41] know, including power tools that will run just about any power tool or cooking appliance. And so you know, that's something that goes on as always after is not just the recreational side, but also the resilience and security element. And I think

[00:15:57] it's interesting to note that in this little four by four foot box, that's about 70 pounds, you know, you have a giant solar array that's as big as is bigger than the first cabin off-grid cabin solar system that I installed. And that's it's

[00:16:14] also about a third of the price that system when I you know, about 10 years ago, or sorry, about 20 years ago, was about $10,000 to get something that today is only three grand. Are you developing this all in house? Are you doing the manufacturing and the design and everything?

[00:16:31] Yeah, more or less. That's that's what goes on is good at is the and that's what we've always done. We, we design prototype engineer, and then you know, of course, contract manufacturer, we do also own co-owner facility where we do the

[00:16:48] bulk of our assembly and kind of packaging and putting things together. And so what's nice about that is we can control that final step of quality assurance and controlling our intellectual property as well. And that facility is in Ningbo,

[00:17:05] China, which is just south of Shanghai. Okay, okay. I spent a fair amount of time over there, which is, which is a great, great way to really earn my tool belts and really, you know, participate in our development process.

[00:17:22] Can you share with us some of the challenges that you faced when developing this product? And then kind of how did you overcame those? Because I would imagine that on paper, it seems like, Oh, well, we'll just do this, this and this. And

[00:17:35] then when in reality, when it comes to the manufacturing or the design or the installation or whatever, you're like, Oh, I didn't come I didn't think about this problem or that problem. Yeah. Yeah. And we're certainly not through everything yet.

[00:17:48] But I think the big interesting one is that there's throughout the world, there's a whole bunch of electric vehicle charging protocols. But we and we've had to research and explore and luckily, you know, my team has been involved in an EV development for quite some

[00:18:05] time. So we ended up having to settle on well, in North America, there's a new charging standard, the charge port is basically all going towards Tesla. Some people will call them the Tesla connector, it's also called the Nax North

[00:18:20] American charging standard. And then and then again, the more complicated elements are the charging protocol themselves. So we we've had to do a lot of research and and we settled in on basically one of the first charging protocols which is J 1772

[00:18:39] because we're only charging at level one levels, which is essentially like just a standard 110 volt, like if you ran an extension cord out to your car. And we're lucky in that we don't have to meet, you know, fast charging standards and what

[00:18:53] or not. But but just getting to that point was, you know, quite a debate because again, there's all these different standards, every vehicle might have its own. And so it required quite a bit of exploration to arrive at that. And even still, there may be

[00:19:12] some vehicles that that may not accept our system. So, you know, we're gonna have to work with each customer to find out what car are they working and make sure that expectations are set before we deliver. I gotcha. And for those who don't understand the Nax

[00:19:30] connector, or the NACS connector, that is the connector. The protocol is all the stuff that happens behind that is that that's right. And Forest North, one of the I think is the chief technology officer at TeleTrux, he said the wonderful thing about standards, there's so many to

[00:19:48] choose from. So in this case, I would imagine that you have to go through a whole bunch of research. But fortunately, for level one charging, you know, J1772 should be great. That's but again, that's not the connector. That's the protocol, which is different.

[00:20:08] Right? Yeah, for the audience, you know, it's, you know, what we're talking about is essentially the safety communication that's required between the charging, the power source, so to speak, and the vehicle, the vehicle's charger. And if they aren't in concert, nothing's going to

[00:20:25] happen. You know, those batteries are so well protected by the manufacturer. Someday, someday maybe we'll be able to go direct to the battery on board, which is the whole point, you know, you want the you want the power to go to the

[00:20:36] biggest battery, the one that's propelling the car down the road. But it's going to be a while before we have relationships with EV manufacturers. And they're letting us do that. So how does it work now? Does it is how how is it charging the

[00:20:49] battery if it's not going directly to the battery? We're we're creating 110 volt AC power with an onboard inverter. And we have like a little buffer battery. Yeah, so that solar power is going into the buffer battery. And then we're inverting that and sending the 110 volt to the car.

[00:21:08] Got it. Got it. Got it. That makes sense. So Bruce, who is the one that brought Go Sun and the solar charger to my attention? He was curious. And as of I how does this impact range anytime you strap something to the top of

[00:21:25] your roof, it's going to have a range impact. And then how is that different from a Model 3 to like an F 150 lightning, which is a lot more of a bulky, less aerodynamic car? Yeah, and it's certainly a thing we've done modeling. We've

[00:21:42] never done wind testing yet. But basically, you know, it's all depends on the speed of the vehicle. But but in our, you know, kind of summary, we're seeing upwards of a 10% hit on resistance or aerodynamics. So you do have efficiency loss

[00:22:01] that's significant when at high speeds. And, you know, we're just kind of averaging things out there. They're not as high in city driving below 50 miles an hour. They're significant above 70 miles an hour. So that 10% number generally covers the

[00:22:20] losses of our, you know, five inch tall aerodynamic box that's designed for wind and rain and to shed everything and keep it very smooth. But that is could be an issue when you're doing like big trips, you know, if you're going for a big 1000 mile

[00:22:40] road trip or something, those that that loss is significant. Electric vehicles are generally driven around 20 miles a day on average. And so that means that they're, they're staying pretty close to home, mainly city driving. And and that's where the aerodynamic losses will be

[00:23:00] negligible, you know, because you're meeting that 20 mile driving range every day by the sun. So you're, you're, you know, essentially, like I said earlier, you're in a place like southern southwest, you know, you could drive on sunshine nearly every day of the year.

[00:23:17] That's cool. And you mentioned this a little bit, but just so people didn't gloss over it. What's the price and when can folks expect to take delivery if they preorder one? Right now we have a $100 reservation. That's you

[00:23:32] can find out details at go son forward slash EV. And the the estimated full retail price is three grand. We're trying to apply we're hoping this will be available for a 30% federal tax credit. We're, we're as I mentioned earlier, we're kind of under development, we're, we're

[00:23:57] getting ready to really, you know, vet our final sourcing partners and move into production, you know, probably this fall with estimated delivery in 2025, we don't have great details will have better details at the end of the summer as far as timelines. Go son has done a lot of

[00:24:18] pre sales. So this is like our 15th product that we launched, like in a pre sale format. So we started on Kickstarter and done a ton of Indiegogo campaigns. And we've always delivered. But but there's always learning involved,

[00:24:36] you know, and we, we give everyone the best discount for for taking the bet on us on the pre sale. So those, you know, those early bird price is available now and it won't be forever. So, you know, say a year from now, we've

[00:24:53] delivered a bunch of these units they may cost $4,000 or more. Gotcha. Gotcha. And it looks like you've already through the pre sale, you've already had a million dollars worth of orders preordered in the first 30 days. Yeah. And that number's going up. In fact, at the time of

[00:25:12] this recording, we've launched it for it's been live for almost six weeks. And we're over 2 million in pre sales right now over 600, almost no over 700 units at this point. Nice. Nice. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, it feels great. We knew this was one of

[00:25:28] those solutions that our audience would be perfectly aligned with. We know we're a great company to make it. Again, we you know, we build consumer solar products for recreation and resilience. And we have incredible partners in terms of the manufacturing. And so, you

[00:25:45] know, we nailed it. And this has done better than any of our other product launches. And and we're thinking to really double down on this one and really grow this offering over time. Excellent. Can I can I ask you a couple more questions

[00:26:00] that are not about this just just in general? One is, is there any thought in the future about doing a wall mounted EVSE that would be solar and battery backup? Like maybe somebody can throw it in front of their their in their employee parking, for instance, and they're

[00:26:17] not necessarily, you know, paying for everybody to have an EV solar charger. But maybe there's something you can do that's ground mounted that doesn't take up a lot of space but still give people a little bit of charge without building a whole infrastructure to the parking lot.

[00:26:35] Wow, you're you're clairvoyant, Bodhi. That's absolutely something that we're exploring. I was in this space twice in my career prior to launching Go Sun. So starting about 15 years ago. And in fact, one of the last things I was working on before Go Sun was an electric

[00:26:55] vehicle carport. So yes, absolutely. And I like the way you're thinking about it much similar to the way we would think about it. And I'm always into the I'm always interested in the vehicle to grid piece, you know, again

[00:27:09] going back to resilience, you know how austere and third world this place gets as soon as we lose electrical power infrastructure. I'm sure you've seen it a bunch in your work. And just to maintain electric electrical power for decency is very, very important. And to me, a critical

[00:27:30] thing that anyone in the energy space should be thinking about. You know, how do we how do we diversify the grid, distribute power? And how do we create like more isolated grids and, you know, easier and quicker ways to dispatch power where and when needed?

[00:27:51] Yeah, I will give Bruce equal credit for that question, because he was asking about the wall mounted EVSE and we had some conversations before. So my my my insight might have been borrowed from him. I don't know. So I just want to

[00:28:08] give him the credit that he deserves for that, at least half, if not more. But my my general feeling is that for everybody, like having some sort of backup is is really key like it's not the end of the world to lose power. It's

[00:28:29] not the end of the world to lose your hot water heater. But when you do it, it really causes a big inconvenience in your life. And it's maybe nowadays, it's not as necessary for those kind of things to happen. Provided, you know, we

[00:28:44] had a strong and secure grid, which we clearly don't. So taking it upon yourself and with consumer products like with what goes on sales is a is a big deal, I think. All right, one last question, and just kind of look

[00:29:01] forward. Do you see any trends in, you know, renewable energy that you're excited about? And, you know, imagine that if you're excited about it goes on will be positioning itself to move that direction. But what kind of trends do you see in renewable energy?

[00:29:18] I think we just nailed it with this last piece around home based batteries. And for me, again, it's like, wait, I need to buy I need to buy a $10,000 battery or didn't I just buy that with my electric car? So vehicle to grid vehicle to

[00:29:36] home, bi directional charging. And you know, again, we pretty much touched on it there a minute ago. Like if the grid's down, you know, you can have a pretty simple that you know, this has been developed one on one in solar, a pretty simple

[00:29:53] switch that will enable you to then isolate your whole home away from the utility, and then, you know, power your little isolated grid with whatever battery you have. And those those have existed for decades. And, and, you know, more and

[00:30:14] more people are are hip to this and more and more product developers and companies like go son, are creating home based energy storage and energy backup devices. No longer are we needing gas generators and propane generators and things. So

[00:30:35] that's a really fun space. I think, you know, it is one of those spaces that requires more and more intelligence and innovation. And my thing, a lot of this is like, we should be talking more and more about sufficiency. There's definitely

[00:30:51] a good conversation happening around efficiency. And we're getting cleaner and greener in general. But I think we need to talk more and more about sufficiency, you know, what is sufficient in this application, what needs to get done for

[00:31:04] how long when how often. And again, I think that's one of the areas where goes on really thrives is like with this with this coffee brewing system, you know, solving the coffee equation quickly and easily and elegantly in this in this

[00:31:21] single little cup. I think those are the kind of questions we have to we have to look at on starting in our homes and then going into our neighborhoods and communities and, you know, expanding throughout the country. And it is up to us,

[00:31:36] you know, it's, it's not, you know, we can't leave it in the hands of the utility companies who have completely different incentives than than we do as individuals. Yeah, and I would agree with that 100%. Patrick, is there anything that you would like to plug? I mean, obviously, you

[00:31:56] want everyone to go to go son.com. But is there anything else you have social media that you would like to point people to? Yeah, thank you. And it is go son.co. There's no m there. And then, and then we're in the midst of a

[00:32:10] equity crowdfund raise. So it might be cool to take a look at the whole company and our offering that's at start engine.com forward slash go son. Start engine is the world's you know, maybe the leading equity crowdfunding platform. And so that's a that's an exciting chance to

[00:32:30] see kind of the whole business in one nutshell. But yeah, you can find us on on social at go son all over the all over the net. And we just love any chance to engage. We have a really robust community on Facebook,

[00:32:47] Facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash go son. We call it our community kitchen. And and we love it when our customers you know, take our technology and craft up their own ways of using it. That's great. That's amazing. Thank you so much for

[00:33:03] coming on again. That's go son.co. Don't listen to me listen to Patrick on this. Go son.com takes you to a completely different website unless you assume read Chinese, you won't be able to understand what's going on over there. So go son.co.

[00:33:19] Thanks, buddy. This has been a great chance to get to know you and and in your audience, it's always a pleasure. Yeah, it was great. Thank you very much for coming on. All right, I want to thank Patrick for being so generous

[00:33:31] with his time and telling us about what goes son is up to I really enjoyed this conversation and I'm going to tell you a little secret, right? And this is just between us just between us friends here. Interviewing founders and CEOs

[00:33:45] is not always the best experience for me. Sometimes getting a straight answer out of a CEO or a founder of a company or somebody who's really high up. It's a difficult. I did not have this issue with Patrick.

[00:34:00] Patrick was open and kind and just a really good human. He is welcome back anytime he would like to come on the show and talk about whatever he wants to talk about. It's an open invitation. Open invitation means he can come on and talk

[00:34:15] about whatever he wants. So Patrick, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I'm going to make sure to put all of the social media that Patrick mentioned in the show notes or as much as I could

[00:34:28] possibly find. If you want to go and join their Facebook group or just follow them on Instagram or whatever, I'll make sure to add that to the show notes. And yeah, thank you again to Bruce for looking out and thinking that this would

[00:34:43] be something that everybody would be interested in. And yeah, I think that's it. If you want to email me, you can do so it's bodeye at 918digital.com and I'm also on x at 918 digital. I hope y'all have a great week and I

[00:35:00] will talk to you on Friday.