Semi-Solid State of Mind

[00:00:21] Hello everyone and welcome to Kilowatt, a podcast about electric vehicles, renewable energy, autonomous driving, and much, much more.

[00:00:27] My name is Bodhi and I am your host and I have one of the worst colds that I have had as an adult.

[00:00:35] It sucks. This is not a fun cold. I am able to talk today, which is Sunday. Friday, not so much.

[00:00:44] Saturday felt better, but we had family in town and it felt wrong to have family come in from out of town and then disappear and record a podcast.

[00:00:54] So they stayed until Sunday afternoon and then I wrote the show and here we are.

[00:01:00] But yeah, I apologize for all of these late shows. It is not intentional. I just happen to be very busy.

[00:01:08] And then right after I cleared a lot of stuff off my plate, I happened to get a super bad cold.

[00:01:16] And yeah, I don't like it. I don't like it. I feel awful when I miss the deadlines for this show. So I apologize about that.

[00:01:24] All right. I don't know if anybody noticed, but we are toward the end of 2024. We are wrapping it up.

[00:01:31] So what I thought I would do is I want to thank all the people, all the folks who support us, right?

[00:01:37] Um, I'm going to thank the folks who support us on a cast and as well as the folks who support us on Patreon, but we also have some free members.

[00:01:45] So we're going to do something a little bit different for the end of the year here.

[00:01:49] I have selected two paid members that basically sponsored each news story.

[00:01:55] So, uh, we'll, we'll give a shout out to two paid members at the beginning of each news story and everyone will know basically who sponsored that story, right?

[00:02:05] It does not mean that they're endorsing that story.

[00:02:09] I did not ask anybody if they wanted their names next to these stories.

[00:02:13] So I don't think there's anything very controversial that I'm going to talk about.

[00:02:18] I'm just letting you know that doesn't mean they're endorsing it, but we have a pretty decent size, uh, free tier for a podcast of our size.

[00:02:28] You know, uh, let's see. It looks like there's about nine people on there.

[00:02:32] So, so I want to start off at the beginning of the show and thanks.

[00:02:36] I think all of the folks who are on our free tier.

[00:02:39] And by the way, if you want to get on the free tier, you can do that.

[00:02:44] It's absolutely free.

[00:02:46] And the really big benefit to that is every now and again, I'll accidentally release a free episode to everybody, like an ad free episode to everybody, including those folks on the free tier.

[00:02:59] It doesn't happen very often, but I do like to offer it up every now and again.

[00:03:03] So let's start off by thanking members of our free tier.

[00:03:06] We're going to start off with Michael A., Steve M., Yellowboy Ricky Lee, Ernest, Elip84, Leanna M., Eric M., KCH, Eric S., Moe Cowbell, and Michael Muskie.

[00:03:25] Thank you very much for being on the free tier.

[00:03:27] I actually email back and forth with quite a few of these folks regularly.

[00:03:32] So thank you.

[00:03:33] All right, let's start off with our EV news.

[00:03:36] And our first story is brought to you by Frank P. and Brian S.

[00:03:41] Let's start this off.

[00:03:42] Canada's second largest province will ban the sale of light duty gasoline powered vehicles on January 31st, 2034, which is a little bit away to be honest.

[00:03:55] But what Quebec or what it sounds like Quebec really did here is they took a mandate that was set by the Canadian federal government that all new vehicles sold in Canada by 2035 must be zero emission vehicles.

[00:04:10] But there was a carve out or an exemption for plug in hybrid vehicles as long as they met certain requirements.

[00:04:18] Well, like I said, Quebec just took that a little bit further and banned all ice powered vehicles, which obviously includes when I say ice, I mean internal combustion engines.

[00:04:29] We do have some new folks listening to the show.

[00:04:33] So they banned all ice powered vehicles, which obviously includes hybrids and plug in hybrids.

[00:04:42] Our next story is brought to us by Fallen in Sea and Brad W.

[00:04:49] And this is more of a question really than it is a news story.

[00:04:54] How many delivery vans do you think Rivian has delivered to Amazon?

[00:04:59] And I'm going to I'm going to give you a second to think of that number.

[00:05:03] Think in your head how many delivery vans Rivian has delivered to Amazon.

[00:05:09] The number is 20,000.

[00:05:12] That is that's a large number, but that seems very low to me because it feels like in my little tiny part of the world, there are 20,000 delivery vans just here.

[00:05:24] You know, just here in Arizona or just here in the Phoenix area.

[00:05:27] We see them all over the place.

[00:05:30] But yeah, only 20,000 have been delivered.

[00:05:33] Now Rivian and Amazon's original deal was for Rivian to deliver their deliver them 100,000 vans by 2030.

[00:05:41] And if Rivian keeps, you know, improving their their production and manufacturing processes, I think they're going to hit that number pretty easy.

[00:05:49] But man, the number seemed low.

[00:05:51] Did it seem low to you?

[00:05:52] Just email me at Bodie, B-O-D-I-E at 918digital.com.

[00:05:57] And let me know if that number seemed low to you.

[00:06:00] Our next story is brought to you by Patrick44 and Jerbo.

[00:06:06] Tesla is looking for cities to test their new autonomous driving service in.

[00:06:11] And according to Bloomberg, Tesla has been working with the city of Austin, Texas since May of 2024.

[00:06:18] Honestly, this seems right to me.

[00:06:20] Elon said in October that they would start in Texas and California.

[00:06:26] You know, Giga Texas is in Austin.

[00:06:29] And, you know, Fremont Factory is in Fremont, which is right around Palo Alto.

[00:06:34] So I'd imagine that's where they're going to be testing the cyber cabs, at least initially.

[00:06:41] But, you know, we don't have that.

[00:06:43] That's not 100% for sure.

[00:06:46] But it's a pretty good guess.

[00:06:48] Pretty good guess.

[00:06:50] I would like you to please come to Phoenix.

[00:06:53] According to, you know, the media, we have the best roads for testing your cyber cab on.

[00:07:01] And I'd like to try one out.

[00:07:03] So please come to Phoenix.

[00:07:05] More specifically, Tempe.

[00:07:08] Next up, this story was brought to you by Kiwi Graham and Steve K.

[00:07:15] We have a rumor for the refreshed Model Y.

[00:07:19] And there are a lot of rumors going around about the refreshed Model Y.

[00:07:23] And I don't bring them up often because, you know, they're just rumors.

[00:07:28] But this one seems kind of valid.

[00:07:29] According to Car News China, the Model Y refresh or the Juniper, codenamed Juniper version of the Model Y,

[00:07:38] is set to launch in China early next year.

[00:07:41] And it will come in a five and six seat variant.

[00:07:45] Again, this rumor seems very likely.

[00:07:48] They did something pretty similar last year with the Model 3 refresh.

[00:07:52] So I give it some credibility.

[00:07:55] This next story was brought to you by Charles T.S. and Paul S.S.

[00:08:02] Tesla's Powerwall 3 is now in Puerto Rico.

[00:08:06] And I thought this was interesting.

[00:08:07] Tesla is already operating their virtual power plant in Puerto Rico, which I didn't know that that was the case.

[00:08:13] And right now, there are about 75,000 Puerto Rican Powerwall owners.

[00:08:20] That doesn't mean there's 75,000 Powerwalls.

[00:08:23] That's how many people actually own a Powerwall.

[00:08:25] So the number could be higher than that.

[00:08:27] And it's probably higher than that.

[00:08:28] But those folks of those folks of the 75,000 who qualify and are participating in the virtual power plant program,

[00:08:37] they are earning $1 per kilowatt hour when supplying the grid during an event.

[00:08:44] So I'm guessing an event means whenever the grid is under stress, whether that could be a natural disaster or, you know,

[00:08:52] people are just using a lot of power and they need a little bit of bolstering to help the Puerto Rican grid.

[00:08:58] But according to Tesla's website, $1 per kilowatt hour could net you between $500 and $1,200 a year.

[00:09:07] So not too shabby.

[00:09:39] And moving on to our next story.

[00:09:43] This story is brought to you by John B.

[00:09:45] And just another Nick.

[00:09:47] Here we go.

[00:09:48] So this is something I feel like we've talked about a bunch, which is solid state batteries.

[00:09:54] And I want to make sure we're all on the same page for a couple of different reasons.

[00:09:58] One is I think solid state batteries are going to be really big in 2025.

[00:10:03] And the second thing is, is I think when CES happens just in a couple of weeks here,

[00:10:09] we're going to be hearing a lot about them.

[00:10:11] And I'm going to actively seek out people who are in booths that are around solid state batteries.

[00:10:18] And I think we just kind of need a little refresher on what a solid state battery is,

[00:10:24] why they're good, why they're bad, that kind of thing.

[00:10:26] So let's start off with the difference between what we use currently in our EV batteries,

[00:10:33] the lithium ion EV batteries, and what a solid state battery is.

[00:10:37] So basically it is the current lithium ion batteries use this liquid or a gel electrolyte

[00:10:44] that conducts ions and insulate ions to and fro.

[00:10:47] The solid state battery uses a solid material that conducts and insulates the ions.

[00:10:53] And the solid material is typically ceramic, but that doesn't always mean that it will be ceramic

[00:10:59] or when they enter like full production, that will be the actual solid material.

[00:11:03] But those are the main differences.

[00:11:06] More or less, the chemistry and architecture are the same as current EV batteries.

[00:11:12] And I understand if you're an electrochemical engineer,

[00:11:15] you might be hearing me right now and want to punch me in the face.

[00:11:19] And I say, chill out, bro.

[00:11:20] We just need to kind of understand this.

[00:11:22] And I don't have the ability to explain it at your level or even understand it at your level.

[00:11:30] So I'm going to try and get a battery engineer on the podcast.

[00:11:34] But yeah, that's kind of what we're dealing with when it comes to the difference between

[00:11:38] a solid state and the current lithium ion batteries that we have.

[00:11:43] Now there are advantages to solid state batteries.

[00:11:46] One is they're more energy dense.

[00:11:49] Just to give you an example, and I put an article from Motor Trend in the show notes for this,

[00:11:54] but just to give you an example, a current 80 kilowatt hour battery could weigh over a thousand pounds.

[00:12:01] A solid state battery, 80 kilowatt hour battery, would weigh a bit over 330 pounds.

[00:12:08] So not only are they more energy dense, so you're going to get for that 80 kilowatt hours,

[00:12:14] you're going to get more range.

[00:12:16] It actually weighs less, which you'll get even more range.

[00:12:19] Another advantage of the solid state batteries is they can fully charge in about 10 to 15 minutes.

[00:12:29] And when I say fully charge, I mean up to 100%.

[00:12:31] It's pretty good.

[00:12:33] You don't really have to do the 80% or 50% of what some people will do.

[00:12:39] Another benefit is that they're safer.

[00:12:41] There is less of a chance of them catching fire.

[00:12:44] That does not mean a 0% chance.

[00:12:47] That just means less of a chance.

[00:12:49] And we'll talk about that here in a moment.

[00:12:51] Now let's move on to the disadvantages.

[00:12:54] Solid state batteries may use way more lithium than current batteries.

[00:13:00] When I say may, it's because we're not to full production of solid state batteries yet.

[00:13:05] We're still kind of in the R&D phase.

[00:13:08] So may use more lithium than current batteries.

[00:13:12] And some experts say it's between five and 10 times more.

[00:13:16] I don't necessarily think this is a big deal because we have a lot of lithium processing plants

[00:13:24] going, you know, getting up and running.

[00:13:26] And we kind of have, at least at the moment, a surplus of lithium.

[00:13:33] But this could be a big deal as these solid state batteries, you know, hit production and are actually being used.

[00:13:42] That could be a problem in the future.

[00:13:44] The other thing is solid state batteries are difficult to recycle.

[00:13:48] And that's for now.

[00:13:49] I mean, they're difficult to recycle probably, I would guess, you know, for a myriad of reasons.

[00:13:56] One of them being is there's not very many.

[00:13:57] So they don't really have systems and machinery to easily recycle.

[00:14:02] I mean, they're not really targeted as batteries to recycle.

[00:14:06] I'm sure that will change going forward.

[00:14:09] They also cost more or could cost more.

[00:14:11] But the biggest issue is that they can create these things called dendrites.

[00:14:18] And dendrites are created when you do a lot of repeated charging.

[00:14:23] They can also be created just as the battery ages.

[00:14:26] But dendrites kind of they can change the shape of the electrical, the lithium electrode, excuse me.

[00:14:33] And it creates like these branches that kind of grow like a tree.

[00:14:39] And eventually those branches could cause a short in the battery pack, which could cause a fire.

[00:14:46] It could also cause the battery pack just to fail.

[00:14:48] There's some other issues with solid state batteries, just that they're not as reliable at the moment.

[00:14:54] They're not as reliable.

[00:14:55] But yeah, that's kind of what we're dealing with in terms of solid state batteries.

[00:15:01] I would imagine that they're going to solve all of these issues soon enough.

[00:15:06] But we won't see commercialization, according to experts, until 2030 or 2035.

[00:15:13] Hopefully that was explained in a way that helps everybody understand it.

[00:15:19] And I didn't sound like a total buffoon there.

[00:15:21] So let me know.

[00:15:22] You can send me an email.

[00:15:24] It's bodie, B-O-D-I-E at 918digital.com.

[00:15:27] Now we have one last story that kind of is a good follow-up to what we just talked about.

[00:15:34] And this story is brought to you by Charles F., an Electron Raceway Fabricator.

[00:15:39] Car News China is reporting that MG is planning on introducing a semi-solid state battery in 2025.

[00:15:48] Which, again, I'm seeing a lot of news about solid state batteries in 2025, or rumors, I should say.

[00:15:57] Maybe not news.

[00:15:58] So it doesn't surprise me that MG, a Chinese company, and I think they're actually owned by a Chinese battery company.

[00:16:05] It doesn't surprise me that they're doing this.

[00:16:06] A semi-solid state battery, just in case you're curious, is a, it's half of our current technology lithium-ion batteries and half of a actual solid state battery.

[00:16:20] Like in April of 2024, NIO rolled out its first semi-solid state battery for their Chinese version of the ET7 sedan.

[00:16:31] It was 150 kilowatt hours, and the range was just ridiculous.

[00:16:36] It was estimated to be between 557, depending on some people you read, and 656 miles, which is like 900 to 1055 kilometers right around that.

[00:16:48] I'm not getting those numbers exactly right, but that's pretty close.

[00:16:52] But that just seems like a nutty amount of range on this battery pack.

[00:16:58] We actually talked about this story right around April, whenever it happened.

[00:17:03] But I hadn't really heard any follow-ups, like negative or positive.

[00:17:07] So I did a quick search for NIO's semi-solid state battery, and whether or not, you know, people were having issues.

[00:17:16] And I couldn't really find anything.

[00:17:17] And again, this is probably in a handful of cars in China.

[00:17:22] I didn't expect that I would find much of anything, but I wasn't able to find anything, anything that was negative towards these batteries.

[00:17:31] Lots of explainers, but nothing that would really lead me to think that these batteries have issues.

[00:17:39] So we'll see what happens over time here.

[00:17:42] And by the way, I have a couple more NIO stories.

[00:17:48] My voice is going.

[00:17:50] NIO's Envo EV brand is set to launch in Europe with the L60 SUV in early 2025.

[00:17:57] If you're not familiar, the L60, which I'm very infatuated with this car, is very similar to the Model Y,

[00:18:05] but costs $21,000 if you sign up for the battery subscription.

[00:18:09] And the battery subscription costs between $85 and $125 a month, which, you know, gets you over 300 miles with the $85 a month battery subscription.

[00:18:20] So that's pretty good.

[00:18:22] Over 300 miles is pretty good.

[00:18:23] And if you buy the car outright, it's $29,000.

[00:18:27] Or if you buy the battery outright, it's $29,000.

[00:18:30] And, you know, the Model Y starts in China at $35,000.

[00:18:35] And right now, the L60 is only available in China.

[00:18:39] And I didn't convert these.

[00:18:41] I didn't convert the dollar amounts or the price to one because I don't really have anybody in China who listens to this show.

[00:18:51] There's a few, but it's not a lot.

[00:18:53] So, and I'm not even sure that, you know, those numbers or the analytics on that are 100% correct.

[00:19:01] So, even though I gave you dollar amounts, this car is still only available currently in China, but is headed to Europe.

[00:19:09] No word on how much it will cost once it hits Europe.

[00:19:13] It's likely going to be higher.

[00:19:15] And, you know, Europeans and Americans, from what I can tell, don't tend to want to have to pay for a battery subscription.

[00:19:24] So, I don't know if the battery subscription will actually make it out of China or at least out of Asia.

[00:19:30] But I would imagine that's going to cost more than $29,000 or, you know, whatever it is, 30,000 euros, simply because there are tariffs in Europe, you know, against Chinese manufactured EVs.

[00:19:47] So, we'll see what that final cost ends up being.

[00:19:51] And then one final note.

[00:19:53] I'm a big fan of NIO.

[00:19:55] NIO had their NIO Day event yesterday, on Saturday, the 21st of December.

[00:20:03] They announced the ET9, which looks like just a great-looking car, and the Firefly brand.

[00:20:10] Their Firefly, start over.

[00:20:12] Their Firefly brand.

[00:20:14] I'm going to leave this all in.

[00:20:16] The Firefly brand is a new brand that they have that's super affordable.

[00:20:22] It's smart car sized.

[00:20:24] It looked really good.

[00:20:26] I'm going to be honest with you.

[00:20:28] The event, I saw the highlights of the event, which is about five minutes.

[00:20:32] It was in Chinese.

[00:20:33] It was very hard to follow.

[00:20:35] I was trying to read the subtitles.

[00:20:38] So, I'm going to wait for some of the American, European, and English outlets to report on this car and give us some more details, and then I'll get back to you.

[00:20:47] But the car itself looks super cool.

[00:20:49] It is a small car, but it's a really cool-looking small car.

[00:20:54] All right, everybody.

[00:20:55] That is it for me today.

[00:20:57] If you didn't hear your name read, don't worry.

[00:21:01] We have plenty of time left in the year to give everyone a proper thank you.

[00:21:07] But to the patrons, the ACAST supporters, and everyone who listens to this podcast, thank you so much for supporting this show in whatever way that you do.

[00:21:19] It really means a lot.

[00:21:20] If you're not, I'm looking forward to going to CES this year and providing some really good coverage and getting you a lot of fun and interesting interviews.

[00:21:31] Right now, I'm trying to get my media pass situated.

[00:21:33] Hopefully, that gets taken care of tomorrow on Monday.

[00:21:36] But the most important thing here is thank you, everyone, so much for being so supportive.

[00:21:42] It fills my heart up with joy and love and everything that you folks give back to this show.

[00:21:52] I truly believe I get way more from you folks than I give out.

[00:21:59] So thank you, thank you, thank you for being a part of this show.

[00:22:03] All right, everybody.

[00:22:04] I will talk to you on Tuesday.

[00:22:06] For real, I'll talk to you on Tuesday.

[00:22:08] I hope you all have a wonderful Monday.

[00:22:11] And I will talk to you soon.

[00:22:13] Bye.